Foreman never hit Ali with his best shot, right?

This might be heresy, but Kinshasha Ali and Manila Ali are my favorite head-to-head historical monsters.

 

I feel like they’d do pretty good in H2H matches as well, but his legs seemed like they were starting to go compared to 72 or even 73.

 

George landed some hellacious head shots but I wouldn’t call them his absolute best.

However, I totally agree, it doesn’t detract from the perception that Ali still took some shots to the head that many other HWs wouldn’t have taken as well as Ali did.

I scan viewed the fight briefly and going from memory to locate them, there are certainly several other powerful head shots that stand out - including several later in the fight - proving the ever present danger of Foreman’s retained power.

Ali’s ability to take a punch likely did mask the power of some of Foreman’s punches in so far as Ali being less reactively hurt than most other fighters.

Conversely, I would say Foreman’s own resilience saw Ali’s power shots on George unjustly underrated also - unjust in terms of believing that George merely fell due to his own exhaustion.

Prior to the KO, Foreman had already received a good going over. He was clearly marked up and Ali’s final right hand was a beauty.

 

What the heck, I’ll point to some of the punches I noticed (I don’t think they’ve been highlighted as yet - apologies if they have been).

Of course I don’t expect anyone to have a look - just some further reference points for those interested.

39:30 round 5, Ali begins an offensive off the ropes but even so, at 39:50 Foreman still lands a powerful left hook, albeit wildly launched, to Ali’s head that had to hurt.

47:15 round 7 big uppercut, wrenching Ali’s head up

50:05 round 8, Foreman lands two powerful right hands - the first of which is flush on the chin and really twists Ali’s head.

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Round five is where it happened. (I detailed it on this site around 2009-2010, but I'd have to search for exactly where I discussed it with JT).

With Ali on the ropes, Foreman goes for the kill. At 2:05, it begins. Hook to the body, hook to the head, hook to the body, hook to the head, double hook to the body, all to set up the intended knockout punch, the right which George successfully scores over Muhammad's left just as the YouTube timer counts up to 2:10 while the errant HBO time left in round five counts down from :56 to :55. Foreman then moves back, expecting Ali to fall as Muhammad instantly reacts with his taunt, "Is that the best you've got?" as Colonel Bob Sheridan nails his live call of it perfectly.

Slow it down to a speed of 0.25. That right was not blocked or deflected. It looks from that angle like it probably slammed into Ali's temple, a vulnerable spot for the likes of Cooney or Howard Davis, Jr. if not Muhammad's weakest spot. (Shavers later did wobble the GOAT with singular right hand striking of that sort. The late Leroy Caldwell said though that while Foreman's power was about the same as Lyle's, Earnie hit harder than both put together. In an interview while Ali could still speak clearly on camera, he made the supremacy of the Shavers power crystal clear. Most recently, Joe Bugner added his name to the list of those who said Earnie was the hardest puncher, and Bugner went 12 rounds with Lyle.)

You can see with George's body language and post Sunday Punch reacting and reaching that Ali's just completely deflated him. Foreman has repeatedly admitted on camera that this was his best punch, and in fact the hardest combination he ever landed on anyone. Those six left hooks were the setup and windup for that final right hand grand slam home run attempt.

Following that right, George obviously founders unsurely. He KNEW he was going to knock Ali out with what he did from 2:05 to 2:10, then all he knew was that he had NO hope of knocking Muhammad out.

Ali spends about 20 seconds clearing away whatever residual fuzziness did result from that right (again, Sheridan was in ideal position to see it hit Muhammad cleanly), then a badly demoralized George is obviously in very serious trouble going back and stumbling about as Ali unloads his counterattack. He told his corner he was now going to have some fun, but he could have quickly ended it in round six. Foreman was done.


2:05 is when that succession of winding setup hooks begin, then the hardest punch of George's career fails miserably at 2;10 (again, slow the YouTube speed down to 0.25 and mute if Sheridan's slowed voice is a distraction):

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Well if he didn’t, I don’t know who else he’d blame but himself. He had eight rounds at the peak of his powers with which to hit a dangerous but certainly quite past-prime Ali.

Foreman under-performed massively.

 

I watched each. I've always noticed the one @ 39:50. Foreman was falling back, and his right foot was off the ground, but he did land that left pretty flush. Hard to tell if it did any damage though as Ali just seemed unfazed by anything that night.

Just a side note here, but every time I watch that 5th round, I've always noticed somebody in the background yelling what sounds like, "A**HOLE!". This person's voice stands out among the crowd. Am I hearing that right? Here it is...

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Never messed around with the speed preferences on YouTube. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, I always thought that Foreman's failure to do more visible damage to Ali in the 5th after going on the attack had to put a lot of doubt in his mind. That obviously had to leave him gassed, and he took some good punches after he shot his load. Not sure how much the trash talking led to George's mental unraveling, but I think it was definitely a factor. These were things that George probably wasn't used to dealing with at that point...

 

Lol, I heard that! Wow. Great pick up. Never noticed that before.

Dundee perhaps? During the fight at some point he was screaming at some of Foreman’s cornermen who were trying to adjust the ropes mid fight.

One thing Sheridan said that made me laugh.

He noted the crowd chanting “Ali, Bomaye”, and translated it to mean “Ali, kill him”.

Bob was mindful to further note the the crowd meant it in the “sporting sense” (= figuratively, not literally).

I was thinking, I dunno about that Bob - I think some might’ve meant it literally. Lol.

Imagine fighting a guy whose many fans are passionately chanting in unison for him to kill you!

Slightly off putting I would think.

For absolute best punches, I’d probably opt for the first Frazier fight.

He would never have been vulnerable to same but IF Ali had to take exactly the same shots as and when Joe did in Jamaica, I have a hard time imagining Ali managing to stay upright.

Mind boggling how Joe kept getting up after each and every brutal KD.

What an absolute, instinctive warrior he was.

 

My bad, I doubled up on your earlier reference to that same right hand. One other notable thing was that right hand seemed more audible than some other shots landed. Hearing a punch can add to the perception of its force.

 

Hi Buddy.
Your reference to Foremans mental state is a good and valid point, not unlike Liston, lots of his opponents were prob beaten before they entered the ring, such was the aura of invincibility surrounding George at that time, he had massacred the 2 fighters that gave Ali trouble, the writing was on the wall, or so we thought, for me only 3 HWs struck fear in to their challengers, Louis/Foreman/ and Liston, and Ali beat two of them, that's why he is No1 in my mind.
I like your posts, you make a lot of sense, keep it up, stay safe chat soon.

 

I'd like to see how Ali would handle the two blows comeback Foreman finished Cooney with