Sonny Liston vs Earnie Shavers, both prime.

Theoretically, Shavers could pose a threat to anyone with his punch, but Liston was too good at defense to get caught. Prime Liston is not the one fighting Ali. Literally everything points to Sonny and I don't know what other than lucky punch would favor Ernie. I think Liston by ko, maybe earlier, maybe later, depends on the day. Probably not the full distance.

 

This was a constant habit with Shavers. He'd just hide in his shell when badly hurt and rarely fought back. I think what it was is that he actually had a good chin, but bad recovery and mediocre defense. This is not a good combination for a highly aggressive guy who threw bombs from round 1.

Chin: 8
Recovery: 4
Defense: 6

We saw that in the Cobb, Lyle, and Holmes 2 fights Shavers would simply lean against the ropes and sort of hoped his opponent would get tired first or make a mistake leaving themselves open for a comeback KO shot potential. At the elite level, this never really happened for Shavers except maybe the Williams fight, so it's bizarre why he kept this bad habit throughout his career.

 

Where did you dig that fight up from? I’ve never seen it before. Are you one of those collector guys holding onto rare films?

At any rate, Bennie Briscoe curiously looks a lot taller and bulkier than I recall and I’m not sure how he has anything to do with Shavers -

Earnie obviously never KO’d anyone past round 7 ! I hate it when older fight films are mislabelled, it misleads some fans.

 

Just on Shavers, more seriously of course, I think he gets undersold on technical proficiencies viewed within the frame of him being a puncher.

There are several early round KO wins in which Earnie was acceptably on point and his follow ups were fine - I would cite the Henry Clark stoppage and Norton KO as two cases in point.

Perceived lack of technical proficiencies, while still perhaps present in absolute terms, might also have come by way of Earnie’s already identified stamina issues - a fast fatiguing fighter obviously becoming that much more sloppy in their executions.

Earnie paced himself beautifully against Ali and per the eye test and Ali’s reactions to being hit, Earnie’s executions were still very nice throughout and he definitely still carried formidable power through 15 rounds.

 

Agreed. It's one thing to have stamina in the 15th round. It's even more impressive to still have snap in your punches and bludgeoning power even as the final bell approaches. Those shots he landed on Ali were still lethal and could've KOd lesser opponents.

What's rarely talked about is just how much hard work Shavers put in to improve his stamina. Dozens and dozens of grueling rounds of sparring and road work.

 

I didn’t know that. Thanks.

He blew Norton away quickly - I believe he had a long, intensive training camp for that fight - he really looked to be the fittest he had ever been and probably had more rounds than usual in him if necessary.

I like the old school wood chopping which Earnie practiced, as did quite a few 70s fighters. Good for increasing punching power and punching stamina, etc.

Ali practiced same at any rate but I believe he upped the ante when training for the Foreman fight.

Ali looked bigger around the shoulders and arms for the Zaire fight imo, and I think the benefits of the axe training were well realised in the punching power he displayed against George.

For Zaire, Ali customised his body much differently as compared to the shape, condition and lighter weights he was for the Frazier and Norton rematches.

I’ve never been totally convinced that Ali was prepared to dance 100% for Foreman - he came in heavier and better “built” to plant and punch harder, just imo.

During commentary for one of Shaver’s fights, Jerry Quarry stated that Shavers was the only fighter he knew of who did weight training. He left out/over sighted Chuvalo who obviously did train regularly with weights also.

Looking at Earnie’s build, the dedicated weight training is believable imo - perhaps without a considerate, properly targeted weight training regime as many have these days, Earnie might’ve also suffered from perhaps being a bit too muscle bound, contributing to his stamina woes - just speculating - otherwise, Earnie had a terrific build, including huge shoulders and back.

He definitely looked the part of a puncher.

 

Suffice to say he will learn something hahaha.

 

I always thought he drew against Hart for some reason!