Hagler vs Duran

They always mumble about what they would do next time after a sub par effort.

Hagler in no way even wanted to fight Hamsho but he was the number 1 contender for both his WBC and WBA belts and it was time for a mandatory.


Here's what Hagler said -

'Mustafa Hamsho is a mandatory defense and that's all,' Hagler said. 'I'm fighting him because the rules say I have to fight the No. 1 contender. He doesn't worry me one bit. I handled him easily in 1981 and I'll be even more convincing in the Garden.'

The thing is tho Hamsho was the best guy at 160 besides Hagler. If Hagler wasn't around he would have won a title and possibly have reigned for some time. He was as hard as nails but born at the wrong time. He actually whooped Benitez, who was looking for a shot at Hagler himself.

So Hagler had mandatories to deal with while Duran was getting himself poleaxed.

At the end of the day tho Duran didn't deserve any quickie rematch. Poor scoring (according to the vast majority) makes this a much bigger deal than it ever was at the time. No-one ever disputed Hagler won and the mags were mostly full of amazement/disdain at how close the cards were. If all the cards had Hagler by 4 points or so most of the conversations around this fight decades later wouldn't even exist. The scoring adds extra punch and mystique to the Duran legend and it forever will now.

Pe rematches Duran never remotely put himself in line for one. If he beat Hearns he would have got one pronto but he got hammered. Duran then fought two mugs with losing records before getting beaten by Robbie Sims.

They were maneuvering Hearns for a rematch but had to sell his chances first after being KO'd previously. He was offered extra cash incentives if he could KO Schuler early as they needed a dominant performance from Hearns after he left the ring the way he did vs Hagler. Then Ray comes back and no-one was ever going to not go straight into a fight with him. Hagler had been yearning it for years.

So among all that Hagler did nothing wrong whatsoever.

 

Not saying he did anything wrong, however he didnt do well against Duran this is a fact. He didnt fight Hamsho until October 84 almost a year later. He was about to become a once a year fighter at this point. He stopped every other challenger to that point, so why not a rematch? Hearns destroyed Schuler in the first round. Dominant performance? Id say so.

 

The trouble for a Hearns rematch was that Tommy got carried out of the ring.

If Hagler tried for an immediate rematch with Duran i have little doubt they would have blocked him and demanded a mandatory. At any rate regardless of Duran going the distance he was beaten comfortably in the eyes of almost everyone at that time even if Hagler was a bit disappointing.

You mentioned he didn't want rematches unless it was someone he knew he could beat like Hamsho. He would have sure as heck known he'd beat Duran next time too. Who didn't he think he could beat?

And on this topic he gave Antuofermo a shot at his title. Antuofermo had of course successfully defended his middleweight title against Hagler years earlier with a controversial draw. Hagler didn't have to fight him he simply wanted too so he could clear the slate. The only controversial thing about the Duran decision was that it wasn't wider. As time goes on more and more people seem to think it a closer fight than anyone did at the time. If Duran legitimately fought him to a standstill and plenty of people thought Duran won rest assured Hagler would have banged on again with him. Hagler didn't fear any man from his division or lower.

 

If Duran had beaten Hearns I'm 99,9% certain that a rematch with Hagler would have been made instead of Hagler-Hearns. But after Hearns made Duran look like road kill in the ring there was only one fight that mattered. Hint, it was not a rematch for Duran against either man.

 

100%.

The possible fly in the ointment may have been Leonard suddenly deciding he'd like to have a decider vs Duran. I'd wager money that if Duran got that decision against Hagler then Ray would have fought Duran. The itch would have simply been too big to scratch.

 

I had Hagler winning 10 to 5 in what was an underrated classic.Duran took many big shots from Hagler over 15 rounds.
This emphasises further just how much of an animal Tommy Hearns was for knocking Duran Cold with one punch in the second round,albeit an overly sexed up version of Duran who came into the fight completely unprepared.

 

Agreed, Duran showed up like he's was going to a sparring session not a fight. After he won in Montreal you just never knew which version of Roberto would show up.

 

For ****'s sake, you can't actually believe that last bit.

 

Brilliant post, JT, and a really great point about Hagler in rematches. Some fighters can adapt mid-fight, some can make adjustments in rematches and some never can - Hagler was probably in the middle group. If you didn’t beat him the first time, you weren’t going to get the better of him the next time.

 

Cheers Jel.

 

The latter. He merely did better than expected.

It's funny. They may never have fought except for a Bob Hope Special.

Leonard and Hagler were expected to have a "mock" fight during Bob Hope's 80th Birthday Television Special, but Leonard got a hernia the morning of the taping. So the producers of the show scrambled to find another boxer, and they got Duran, who was in training camp for the Davey Moore fight (which he also wasn't supposed to get but Tony Ayala went to prison).

When they appeared on TV together, boxing people were surprised how similar in size they were. When Duran beat Moore for his title, and with Leonard retired, Top Rank decided to make a Hagler-Duran fight.

It was Hagler's first closed circuit fight. He was nervous because closed circuit fights were a bigger deal and he wasn't a household name yet like Duran. So Hagler fought tentative and Duran fought better than expected.

The official scores were way too close.

NY Times article about the Bob Hope Show

When the three-hour television special honoring Bob Hope's 80th birthday was in the planning stages many months ago, it was decided that because he had been a boxer (under the name Packy East) as a youngster in Cleveland, a segment on boxing should be included.

''We recalled that when Sugar Ray Leonard retired from boxing, he apologized that the public would never see a fight between himself and Marvelous Marvin Hagler,'' said James Lipton, the producer of the program, which was shown on NBC Monday night.

''We thought that we could stage the 'fight' and both Leonard and Hagler agreed.

''But on Friday morning, the day that we were taping the show, I got a call telling me that Leonard was in the hospital for a hernia operation. We needed a replacement fast.'' Bob Arum, the promoter, suggested Roberto Duran, who was in training at Valley Forge, Pa., for a fight next month against Davey Moore.

Duran agreed, flew to Washington that afternoon, rehearsed for an hour, and, according to the producer, performed ''perfectly.'' ''Afterwards,'' Mr. Lipton said, ''when I tried to tell Roberto how much I wanted to thank him, he just said, 'O.K., O.K.' We then flew him right back to his training camp.''


And a clip from the show. (Totally weird 80s variety show type thing.)

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Agreed Hamsho only lost two fights over a 11 year period both to Hagler.

 

I had Duran on points easily here and Geraldine by TKO.

 

Was that Flip Wilson's " Geraldine " at the end of the video?
My God the memories.... And I'm old lol.

 

I think Hagler was weary or rather very concerned about Duran after seeing the Davey Moore fight. With Duran, being aggressive usually would not work since you were in his range and that was his strength. Hearns could do it because he was so fast and long 78 in reach. Benitez just controlled Duran with his pace and speed and defense as did Ray, but with Davey Moore (11 fights but still a champ) Duran surprised all, and it is surprising how that intimidated Marvin to sit back a little more and wait and see what Duran would do. Marvin was a very smart fighter, but at times if he knew he could win fighting a boxing fight he would take it. With Hearns I think he knew he had to fight right in Hearns face and make it a war since Hearns jab would have won and the right would have been at a better distance to land further out than close.