How would you view Lomachenko in all time terms?

Because people don't know s*** about boxing and will just say he lost 3 times within 20 fights.

 

I think everybody can see he has ATG skills. Look at what he still has at 36 yrs old (yes, Kambosos is limited, but very tough, legit).

Haney-Lomachenko looked almost as bad as DelaHoya-Gamache, size differential wise.. and age wise.. forget it- but Lomachenko still fought rugged and ready. HOF talent. All around.

 

Win or lose against Fury, I think Usyk's legacy will age very well.

 

He's easily an All Time Great. No doubt about it. First title in 3rd fight. Fastest to two titles, Fastest to three titles. Only four of his fights have not been title fights. At 126 or 130 I'd pick him over anyone in the modern era.

No one had come close to stopping Kambosos previously and Loma, at 36 and past his prime, took him apart.

 

An ATG talent but missing enough resume to be considered an ATG.

He choose to fight for Olympic gold twice and won gold twice, and this delayed his entry into the pros.

IMO, he defeated Salido in his second pro outing, despite being massively outweighed and having what was the worst reffing job I've ever witnessed.

He lost narrowly to Lopez while injured.

And IMO, and the opinion of most , he beat Haney.

So record wise, he did pretty good.

At 36, he doesn't have a great chance of beating Shakur and Tank, but if he did, that might clinch ATG status for him.

He is one of the most talented boxers of the twentieth century so far. The only ones with possibly more talent might be Pea, Roy and Floyd.

I hope to see him fight again.

 

He's one of the greats.

End of.

 

He's not even close to the best Ukrainian of his era. Usyk is very skilled too, but has much more self belief in his own chin and heart.

 

I'm a fan of both.

Usyk is very skilled, no doubt.

But Loma's skills are on a different level.

 

Do you consider ring IQ to be "skill"?

 

As I say with Golovkin, and I mean this flatteringly, Lomachenko would have thrived in an older era with less belts and classes. Had he had the benefit of a belt or two and no 130-pound class to bother with, he would have been a great featherweight who may have been able to snatch the lightweight crown in the process (which is still an incredibly difficult process, if we are only talking about Championships and not merely alphabet trinkets). Unfortunately with the current state of affairs, his legacy, like many others, is less obvious.

 

Well reasoned and persuasively articulated. An outstanding post, actually.

I believe Loma compares quite favorably to the very best 130lbers in the sport's history. Had he campaigned at that weight for any length of time, he'd have absolutely established himself as a bona-fide ATG SFW. Nevertheless, I think the eyeball test and his modest body of work there offer enough to consider him an ATG that weight.

Overall the case becomes harder to make for many of the reasons you so clearly articulated. Yes, he's a HOFer but is he currently an overall ATG (as opposed to simply a divisional ATG)?

No.

If, however, he defeats Navarette (which is likely his next fight) and either Tank or Stevenson, two current P4Pers with youth and in the case of Stevenson size on their side, to all but unify at 135lbs as an old, undersized former featherweight, then I think he has a legitimate case for overall ATG consideration.

So the jury is still very much out.

 

I posted the following in another thread but it belongs in her to.

Loma is still the best fighter in the world IMO. He should be P4P number 1
If he had the privilege that other fighters do he could possibly still be undefeated he beat Haney's ass and his other losses were close and I would've confidently backed him to beat Lopez and Salido in rematches that he never got.

 

Yes.

 

If you make lists off of inclusiveness and diversity, you could add some of these ATG EE amateur champions who fought as pros, certainly. He's very athletically gifted, but not a great thinker in the ring and obviously doesn't know how to out-dog people and put the work in when it gets stylistically difficult. He's very slick and quick but an ATG list? For Lomachenko? Come on...not cut from that cloth unless you are being very generous to the demographic. And I know a lot of people on this forum want to be.

 

Mikey ducked that fight for a reason.
Rather than lose wide to Loma he sacrificed himself to Spence two weight classes up and got beat like a dog.