How much (if at all) did Roy Jones's losses change your view of him, ATG?

First off, you seem a little upset by something I said and need a chill pill.

Tarver’s am career was full throttle at elite level for at least two years straight before turning pro. He was a better am than Jones.

As for the Harding fight, it’s interesting how Tarver came back from that defeat to beat the absolute crap out of Harding and do the same to Jones in a couple of years time. It’s weird how Tarver got better after a fight that he suffered serious injuries in whereas fanboys write off Jones’ entire career post Ruiz because he moved back down ten or fifteen pounds. I mean, Tarver is older than Jones after all.

And Jones looked crappy against Harding. He probably would’ve only 7-5’d him if Harding hadn’t blown out his biceps or whatever it was.

 

Harding broke Tarvers jaw late in the bout and then dropped him. People also forget in the 2nd bout Harding was again dominating Tarver but Tarver caught and hurt Harding which happens in boxing. So much for the "he got better" theory- his power bailed him out.
Jones did look bored against Harding and Harding is an awkward boxer to face . And no Jones was in no danger of losing to Harding at any point in that fight. Perhaps you could tell me at what point did you have Harding leading his fight with Jones?
Full throttle? When isn't an amateur boxers career busy especially when the Olympics are coming up? Your actually going to tell me an elite amateur boxer is going to suffer more wear and tear in a two year period then someone who has been an elite pro for 10 years?
What exactly did Tarver accomplish in the amateurs that Roy Jones didn't?
Tarver was a boxer who had tremendous talent who wasted so many years quitting and then coming back to the sport hence why he was almost THIRTY before he even turned pro.
Tarver should be thankful that Roy gave him a rematch in the first place because if not for the rematch Tarvers career would have been vastly different.
Tarver blamed everyone for holding him back when the person that held Tarver back was Tarver. Hell it was so bad that Pinklon Thomas was training Tarver at one time because nobody wanted to deal with Tarver.
And is exactly how much older is Tarver then Jones?

 

Lol at "his power bailed him out." He must've beaten Jones with a "lucky punch" and ended Chris Johnson's career with a similar stroke of luck. He even carried that luck up to cruiserweight and heavyweight. Tarver sure was a lucky guy.

Tarver fought Pan Am, World Am Championship, and the Olympics back to back to back, winning the first two and getting bronze in the third. Jones didn't have that kind of run in the ams.

Go ahead and watch the rematch with Jones and take a drink for every time the commentators offer criticism for Jones' performance before he gets knocked unconscious. You'll leave sober.

 

Go fighter a who is younger than the other, beats him in the first match, and then loses the immediate rematch because he's "shot." Bonus points if the shot fighter is winning the rematch and unscathed before getting knocked out.

 

Fanboys ? You're that primitive ? Another douche gets blocked ...

 

It completely matters ... Ray Robinson deteriorated in front of the world from Basilio on to Fuller through Pender and then a few years later started to drop another level. Jones did it overnight. Six months after dominating Ruiz he's hanging on for his life vs Tarver to barely squeeze out a win to getting iced twice in the following nine months .. this is man who dominated the game for fifteen years and barely lost a round ... there is no comparison.

 

Who said anything about a lucky punch? Tarver landed a great shot and knocked Jones out- even Jones said it was a great shot.
Roy Jones is an Olympic gold medalist and Tarver is not.
Its funny because you seem to have implied that Tarver was this vastly improved boxer in the Harding rematch when he was not- he was getting owned the same way the first three rounds in the rematch until catching Harding in the 4th.
The fact that you actually brag about Chris Johnson suffering a brain bleed in his bout with Tarver as if it is some magical accomplishment by Tarver is just disgusting.

 

In assessing his place in the all-time pantheon, it may matter to you but doesn’t to me and I doubt it does to others.

Ray Robinson went from losing the middleweight championship to Gene Fullmer to getting knocked down in his next fight by 30-24-1 Wilf Greaves and winning a split decision (and perhaps his name and fame gave him the narrow edge on the scorecards).

Five months later he lost to Denny Moyer. After a win over a 6-2-2 guy, he lost back to back to Phil Moyer and Terry Downs. A year later it was a draw with Fabio Battini (18-7-3). Soon after it was the memorable Memo Ayon beating him. Ray’s slide was losing to or barely escaping club fighters, although he fought a lot of journeymen to avoid it being an immediate series of losses.

Roy, by contrast, lost three world title fights in a row: two to Tarver and one to Glen Johnson. Then he bounced back to beat Felix Trinidad and was besting a far better class than Fabio Battini and Memo Ayon like Omar Sheika and Jeff Lacy and losing to top guys like Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe.

In short, they were keeping a different sort of company. Had Roy decided to feast on journeymen and club fighters right after losing the title, I suspect he’d have fared better than Robinson.

Is Robinson the greater fighter? Absolutely, perhaps the best ever. Is it because his slide was ‘slower’ than Roy’s because he immediately stepped down to beatable, hand-picked guys (some of whom beat him, drew with him or took him to split decisions)? Absolutely not. At least not in my estimation.

 

Something else about Roy that he doesn’t get credit for is his discipline; it’s always about his talent, giftedness and supernatural reflexes. He had a “childhood” that was more like one prolonged physical and mental gulag. No praise from his father, only austerity. But even after he left his father shortly after turning pro, Roy didn’t go crazy partying or whoring - he was always in top shape, no weight issues or private life drama. If it wasn’t for his mental toughness and discipline, all of his physical blessings wouldn’t have taken him half as far as he went. Edison said, “Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.”

 

I try not to get into peoples personnel business but it was very well known that Roy's father was very brutal with Roy especially if he thought Roy didn't perform like he should have.
That has to take a huge toll on someone.

 

Jones wasn’t fighting guys like Gomez and Jirov in the ams. Tarver accomplished more in the ams and was fighting big dogs of the am game.

I didn’t bring up any brain bleed. You did. Harding and Tarver were both at their peak for the rematch. Tarver went on to do great things and Harding was never the same after that. Tarver ended Jones, Harding, 22-0 Lincoln Carter, Chris Johnson, and Jonathan Banks.

It is what it is.

 

Absolutely! Roy being being a good person outside of the ring might be a greater achievement than his greatness in the ring.

 

Good point.

To some, it seems it’s better to lose fights because of lack of focus and discipline rather than to stay dedicated to the craft and honor the profession by trying to be your best when you enter the ring.

Or as it might be called, actually doing your job if you’re a professional fighter.

I’ve never understood the worship at the alter of excuse and asterisk, as if it underscores greatness rather than undermines it: ‘Oh, Duran got fat in 2 months so him quitting against Leonard doesn’t count;’ ‘oh, Tyson had sex in Japan so him getting beat up by Buster Douglas gets a pass;’ ‘oh, but James Toney (who made super middle less than four months before in his fight previous to fighting Roy Jr) had to lose weight because he hung out at a pizza buffet between trips to the bakery, so it’s not like he really lost.’

Self-defeating habits aren’t a hallmark of greatness. They’re a monument to weakness and shouldn’t be celebrated. They tell us as much or more the measure of a fighter than what he is on his best night.

 

Agree!
Mayweather, Hopkins, Usyk and GGG also come to mind when it comes to that deep discipline and professionalism when entering the ring