How good was George Foreman?(H2H)

Probably 5 or 6 for me. I genuinely think his career comeback, in which he won a title again - and held his own against the likes of Holyfield - is underrated. I think that's an incredible achievement, especially the older I get ...

 

He certainly deserves a top-10 spot IMHO. And I agree 100% with one of the comments stating that for pure natural talent Foreman had as much as any HW in history. (Another fascinating "what if" in how would Foreman's career arc have changed if not for Zaire!)

 

There's no such thing. Such an imaginary fighter/robot would be invincible unless they had a glass jaw.

 

I was admittedly baffled myself at such a comment.

 

Who the hell are the two boxers you think have the speed of Ali, the power of Foreman, great fundamentals, skill, and are bigger than Foreman?

 

We delving into AI here?

 

I rarely rate anyone by number as H2H varies so much ... Foreman was an enormous physical specimen, maybe the strongest natural heavyweight ever, a vicious two handed puncher, had a terrific jab , a will to kill and a terrific chin. He had a brief , wildly successful amateur career and as a result never refined his skill set to maximum capacity and relied on size, strength and power .... despite being very bright he was mentally fragile and immature at times and in showed in default situations in fights that did not go his way .. the comeback version, while only 2/3rds as gifted as the original became a better fighter based on maturity and confidence. A very dangerous man.

 

Foreman was a freak. He's easily top 5 all time for me. Had he beaten Ali he'd probably be regarded as the GOAT.

Anybody detracting from George Foreman is not a true fight fan. On his best day he'd have beaten every other heavyweight that has ever lived with the possible exception of Ali who was George's kryptonite. But outside of Muhammed Ali, Foreman is as good as anyone who ever laced a glove.

 

I think Joe Louis, Mike Tyson (beating post FOTC Frazier doesn't convince me he beats prime Tyson) possibly the K2 brothers, Tyson Fury could get the job done. Sonny Liston is another and I can't forget Lennox Lewis. Deontay Wilder, with his nuke of a right hand has an outside chance as Foreman will never have been hit that hard, not even by Lyle.

I could see big guys like Bruno, Ruddock, Mercer giving him some grief, but I think Foreman stops all of them, although Mercer is a question mark.

 

Wilder is...garbage outside of his power. If puncher's chance was a person, it would be Wilder. That's all he's bringing to the table, and Foreman is the far better puncher in terms of actual delivering shots and making them count. Foreman may have to get off the canvas, but he brutally knocks Wilder out within 4 rounds in a fun shootout.

Foreman KOs Tyson. I've done like 10 different breakdowns of that matchup multiple times. Look up my posts if you want. I don't care to get into that topic for the 10th time. It's a bad matchup and nothing will change my mind at this point.

Liston vs Foreman I think is 55:45 in Foreman's favor if it's peak Foreman from 72-74. Outside of that tirmframe, I pick Liston. Very close matchup.

Joe Louis gets beat up. That leaky defense+slow feet+low left hand+shaky chin means that unless Louis survives the early chaos and can drag Foreman into deep waters, he gets the crap beat out of him. Louis is better against traditional straightforward boxers, technicians, movers and guys with questionable chins. He will not have the durability to survive a shootout with Foreman under any circumstances. He could outbox him or stop him later, but again I just don't see him surviving the early rounds. Louis had way too many close calls and looked vulnerable early so many times. For the record, I think Louis actually does better against Ali than Foreman does. It's about the style matchup.

Fury isn't getting anything done.

Wladmir gets KOd.

Vitali I actually give a good chance of an upset if he doesn't get stopped by the middle rounds. His high stamina, high work rate, awkward style and height could give Foreman problems down the stretch. I still favor Foreman.




Now for people I think could win:

Prime Holmes is a 50/50 tossup. That's one of the truly even matchups on paper and it's a shame it didn't happen.

Lennox Lewis is also a very tough matchup. I go back and forth on that one. Might even favor peak Lewis to win.

Usyk we'll have to see how he looks Saturday. The main thing I'd be worried about is Usyk doesn't react to body shots well. If he can prove he can take some goody body shots, then a Foreman fight is very intriguing.

Ali goes without saying. Even in a rematch Ali would give Foreman serious problems. However if they rematched from 77 onwards, Ali would be running out of ideas and too declined.

 

Prime Louis, Ali, Holmes, FOTC Frazier, and possibly Liston beat him (Liston because of his already being intimidated by him). I give Holy and Steward-era Lewis a good shot, too.

Solely head to head I place him after the aforementioned first four but before Mike Tyson or hmmm, let me see...

H2h
1) FOTC Frazier
2) Ali
3) Louis
4) Holmes
5) Liston
6) Foreman
7) Holyfield
8) Tyson
9) Lewis
10) Marciano

 

The question is about head to head and strictly from that point of view I have Big George in the top five. Ali and Lennox Lewis are the ones I believe would beat Foreman more often than he would beat them. Others could beat him such as Louis, Liston, W. Klitschko, Fury and a few more but, all in all, George is top five H2H.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Louis and Tyson vs Foreman. Tyson was faster, an ATG puncher in his own right, better defense and footwork and an accurate combination puncher and had the chin to take single, heavy shots. If 86-88/89 Tyson was in with Foreman rather than Lyle, Tyson finishes the job in spectacular fashion.

Louis excelled against big men who came forward and could punch but left themselves open to being countered. Louis was an ATG puncher who was a master counterpuncher. Foreman could come out to try to blast Louis out, but it could easily backfire on him. I agree with you to an extent on Louis chin. But Louis had excellent recovery ability. Buddy Baer, who was a 230 something pound puncher, knocked him out of the ring. Louis casually got back in the ring and viciously assaulted him in a 1 sided fashion. Now, Foreman >>>> Buddy Baer, but I'm illustrating a point. My verdict is this...if Louis chin can hold up, he batters Foreman and stops him mid to late rounds. If not, Foreman by KO early.

I agree with you about Wilder. His only chance is to land that right hand and hope it's enough to keep Foreman down. If not, Foreman wipes the floor with him.

The rest, I can more or less agree with, but I slightly favor Holmes. Wlad is a question mark, he was a better boxer than Foreman, significantly larger and some say, hit just as hard. The skill and physical advantages belong to Wlad. The only Achilles heel for Wlad is his durability. Like Joe Louis, if he can take Foreman's power, he wins by KO.

 

I have read a lot of your posts and you are definitely a knowledgeable boxing fan. That being said, I have to question the wisdom of your top guy. There is no version of Frazier that beats the prime version of Foreman. If you are going to use only the FOTC version of Joe then I think it is fair to point out that the version of Frazier that beat Ali would not have been the same man against any other fighter. Much of his relentless fierceness was fueled by the anger he had for The Greatest.

On March 8, 1971, against George Foreman, Joe Frazier would have been the come forward target he was for George in their two later bouts. Big George takes him out in the middle rounds.