Oleksandr Usyk ATG ranking

Usyk definitely is within the top 10 HW but it sounds in this forum that he needs to be an American to be in there.

 

I want to wait with this until his career is over. There's still a likely rematch with Fury to come and what if he drops a controversial SD there (can't really see Fury beating him cleanly tbh)? And even if he beats Fury again, he could be in for a rubber against Joshua at the age of 38-39. Would a loss there change things? And he might even lose to someone else. Highly unlikely for another few years, but upsets do happen.

Also we don't fully know how his wins over AJ and Fury will age. If both have some bad losses in coming fights, will that change things? Especially in Fury's case a loss or two after Usyk might make many say he was past it when he faced Usyk.

 

The greatest of all-time, he looked like a little boy beating up a grown man in there, amazing.

 

Long time no see.
I'm a big fan of ranking fighters while they are still active, because A) I just enjoy changing up my ATG lists every few months instead of every few years, and B) I don't take myself too seriously, and I know I'll be proven wrong time and again, but it's just a bit of fun.

Today, I have Usyk:
-Heavyweight, no. 11
-Cruiserweight, no. 2
-P4P, no. 44
Cheers

 

Exactly this.

 

I don’t think you need to be an American to think that’s an overstatement. I’d have to hear a very convincing argument as to why you think that would be a definitive judgement.

 

The guys here on Classic as a group over the year or so that I was active on here definitely did not rate Fury or Joshua too highly, with the odd exception of course.

However I got the impression that Usyk was considered to be a better all round fighter than the two aforementioned ex champs by the group…even more so now I imagine.

My own opinion is that his achievements cannot be ignored. Undisputed in two weights. Undefeated in two weights. He’s beaten the best in two weights. Never knocked down legitimately. Best of his era in two divisions (so far as he is still fighting) and that’s all a fighter can do…take care of business in your own era and leave history to take care of the rest.

 

Are you forgetting Mike Tyson? That AJ/Fury stock is dropping by the day and while Fury may have had more consistency and longevity than Bowe his peak was not as high. The Bowe that beat Holyfield twice beats Fury ten out of ten times.

 

Umm. Yeah.

 

Achievement wise he eclipses him but Holyfield fought in arguably a better era.

 

Holyfield had 5 fights with the bigger Bowe and Lewis and the consensus is he lost 4 of them. Usyk is better.

 

I couldn't see Usyk losing to Moorer tbh..

 

To bolster your point, I'm frigging Norwegian, not American. Way closer to Ukraine than The USA, geographically speaking.

Nevertheless, I'm open to placing him in the top 20 heavyweights. Paltry numbers aside, he's still the most proven guy out there today in terms of beating top guys.

The question is, how much value does a short, but excellent, stint in the division hold?

Much like Tunney, he clearly showed greatness at the weight, despite the short run. He compares favourably with the likes of Michael Spinks, but not the ATG career heavyweights, imo.

 

Top p4p 50 ATG.

Top 10-15 Heavyweight ATG

I value quality over quantity and Fury x1 and AJ x2 are much more valuable than 10 Chris Arreola level fighters. Like, Vitali has 45 wins at Heavyweight compared to Usyk's 6 and they're mostly garbage to Usyk's. The average Vitali title defence is on par with the worst Heavyweight that Usyk beat, so how much credit should we give for filler? Is Vitali better because he has Odlanier Solis, Obed Sullivan and Kevin Johnson? I'm not even asking rhetorically, I'm genuinely curious about how people weigh things.

Without thinking about it too much no particular order; Ali, Louis, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier, Lewis, Tyson, Marciano, and Wlad are ahead of him. Vitali and Liston might be. Holyfield, Patterson, Shavers are probably not.

 

Yeah Holyfield has a deeper heavyweight resume, but I think usyk is a little better. I like them both though.