Knew it! Ali would have owned Tyson Fury! Modern day giant argument nonsense

Didn't AJ also suffer the same kind of defeats being the bigger guy with the longer height, reach advantage and has bigger one punch ko power. He didn't do anything meaningful to Usyk in their two fights apart from that one big round from which Usyk came back like a boss the very next round?

 

I would not pick Bowe over Usyk Bowe was a mental midget who ducked Lewis and got beat up by Golata who was nothing remotely special.

 

Holmes never beat a southpaw and the one southpaw that he did face as an amateur knocked him out twice.

Same Bowe that struggled with Tubbs? I am sure you will say Tubbs is a better boxer than Usyk.

Yes Usyk would struggle vs Ali (prime 60's version) and would be a big underdog vs Foreman. But against Bowe and Holmes, he has at least a 50% chance.

 

Reminds me when Chagaev outboxed Valuev. Fury is overrated.

 

Time and time again I see people saying that past greats like Ali, Frazier or Louis wouldn't stand a chance against the 90s HWs or Tyson Fury/Anthony Joshua due to size and because today's boxers are so much more athletic.

Wouldn't Usyk winning go completely against that notion? The main argument that people seem to have for Ali beating Lewis and Fury is that Ali's speed and boxing skills would be more than enough to overcome the size of the opponent. Did Usyk not just prove that yesterday?

 

I think Usyk more than proved that yesterday but sometimes, looking back through nineteen-sixties camera technology, Ali looked smaller and is remembered for being smaller than he actually was.

Ali was 6' 3" tall and 216 pounds for Foreman.
Usyk was 6'3" tall and 222 pounds for Fury.

Six pound difference.

 

Agreed. I'm not saying that the Jim J Jeffries or Max Baers who never weighed more than 200 would dominate today, but it just pissed me off big time seeing big name analysts like The Weasle say that Fury was the GOAT and proceed to berate and scoff at fans on X who stated that Frazier would give Fury a tough fight. That actually happened.

 

he did prove that but many people who overrate size will still be in denial.

Ali wasn't a southpaw but he was a lot faster than Usyk. Look at 1967 Ali and look at Usyk. Ali was significantly faster. And he could fight at a high pace for 15 rounds.

Joshua and Fury wouldn't stand a chance vs Ali.

 

of course , it started with Lennox and the klits and then the recent super heavies but I always thought a skilled smaller guy could beat a big guy.

 

i voted no but i never thought size mattered nearly as much as people say it does.

 

Only a simpleton would believe that.

Just ignore them.

Fights are ALWAYS determined by how the two guys match up on the night stylistically.

I started watching boxing when I was about 9 years old.

And by the time I was 10/11, I understood that clearly.

Too many casual fans.

Too much recency bias.

Not enough knowledge etc.

 

Who emphatically picks against a prime Ali in any head-to-head match? I mean, you could make the case that he would lose to a couple guys but you can't do so with anywhere near certainty. And a 6-3 Ali with 82" reach is not the same as little Joe Frazier... or even Joe Louis when it comes to discussing head to head.

 

Absolutely.

Between Holy, Byrd, Haye and Usyk there's enough empirical evidence that you don't need to be a SHW to be a top HW.

 

It really depends on what the smaller guy is trying to do and how that meshes together with how the big guy is boxing. Frazier is going to have a hell of a time trying to fight oh, I don't know, say Vitali, in a phone booth. Ali would have a much easier time outboxing a Chisora or another lead footed brawler.

 

I always knew that a lot of the current HW are idi*** just gaining all that weight, just to be 240+ for no good resaon.
But it gives them more durability, more strength, more power, etc. It's essentially is a exchange for speed, agility, etc .

Being over 210lbs. and you are good to go in most Martial Arts against any other HW. Now again you will have advantage in certain attributes and disadvantages in others. It's all about how you use your strengths and weaknesses, and on what you build your style.

But that being said Boxing is a bit different. As you are limited to use your hands only.
In MMA, Kickbox, Kyokushin, Kudo, Karate, etc, it's different, as you have many more weapons that you can keep your opponent at bay(distance) and a lot more tools to hurt, KO him.

In Boxing for smaller guy is a lot, a lot harder, especially against guy like Fury, who is also a very good wrestler, clincher, etc.