Has Usky just demolished the myth of the modern superheavyweight?

Kinda of, his accomplishment is great but Fury didn´t exactly used his size so it was not used as a factor... Fury hurt Usyk too, so let´s remember, this was a close fight against a guy that is... let´s be honest, way past his best, a guy that almost lost to a rookie and will most likely get beaten a few times now and then retire.

I guess it does help the cause of size being just one of the factors but this fight didn´t play out as a example of that that much....

 

Nice cope?

Lol, you said nothing in direct refutation. At all.

I actually stepped exactly on the facts. Ouch!

Your whole accent is to provide multiple crutches for Fury.

Read yourself, one excuse after another.

That IS the definition for coping.

Projecting that I’m the one limping clearly doesn’t cut the mustard and is absolutely hilarious, you silly Old Biddy.

Now make yourself a cuppa, sit down and rest your legs Luv, particularly that gammy leg of yours that’s been plaguing you for years.

It’s not a pretty sight to see someone waiver on their feet and spout nonsense - exactly as you have just done.

 

How do people want to see their SHWs using their greater size and dimensions?

By holding, leaning, mauling..etc? I certainly don’t. Go watch wrestling if that’s your thing.

Of course if carte blanche is granted on those type of tactics - that’s just another obstacle the smaller man has to try and overcome - which of course moves it further away from the frame and question of actual skill vs skill.

Their extra height, reach and likely greater power/durability per their size, on average, is enough to be getting on with.

That’s what I want to see them primarily employ in an “actual” boxing match.

 

I thought Fury would do some moves like the one he did when he stopped Steve Cunningham. Now, Usyk has something to do with it, the way he fights I believe guys can´t get to him as easily so Fury probably was on backfoot because of Usyk... I don´t know.

 

Fair call Vic...and at least you’re looking at it on the parts of both combatants, not just the one...

 

Heres the thing most of us expected Usyk to win. Also he is 6 ft 3. Hes not really small. Fury is not really a power hitter either for someone of his size and he was the lighest he ever was today weakening his greatest advantage. Size still matters. This resullt doesn't repudiate that.

 

Chin has never shown to scale with size. Ever. Super heavyweights if anything have shown to have the worst chins going back to Willard and Carnera and chin might be Fury and Joshua's single worst attribute. If anything I'm not even sure you can argue super heavyweights punch harder either. People just use the terms "bigger" and "stronger" because it would be flat out wrong to say super heavyweights have better chins or hit harder. Its just a weaselly way to imply that and then just hope that you don't understand the difference when they try to pass it off and sneak it by you.

 

Hey Pug,

I happen to agree with your take on round 8, but would still say that the round-9 KD was the pivotal moment in the fight and I think it was a very close bout. I don't believe anyone is saying it was a random moment of fortune, but it did tip the balance of the contest which, at that stage, was not shaping up to be a comprehensive victory for Usyk.

I had Fury ahead going into the 9th. After surviving the KD, it's hard not to take the after-effects of that moment into account for Fury's loss of rounds 10 and 11.

Regarding the 'preconception' you mention - surely this was well-founded, quite valid and, as such, pointing out the flaws in Fury on the night doesn't necessarily require the closing of one eye or any magic tricks.

Fury has been waning for some years - ever since the second rematch with Wilder, in my opinion and, beyond Wilder III, he hadn't had a competitive bout in two years before being embarrassed by a debutante.

Sure, we could ummm and ahhh about whether Fury had shown up to the Ngannou bout, but the doubts anyone might have had about Fury going into the Usyk fight were warranted and, therefore, observations that are linked to Fury's having started his way down the wrong side of the hill are warranted as well.

Moreover, it is not taking anything away from Usyk to be critical of Fury's performance, or highlighting where he might be in terms of his ring age and career.

For example, I can outright slam Fury for fighting off the back foot and not standing his ground anywhere near enough. Fury showed he could stop Usyk in his tracks and give him pause by asserting himself, but he kept giving Usyk the room and the time to set up his attacks.

Fury was nowhere near active enough, in so far that he could have generated more effective aggression - and I genuinely believe he was drifting out of the fight by the 8th.

His punch resistance was comparatively poor, given that he's a guy who had in the past gotten up multiple times from right hands delivered by Wilder.

BUT - credit, of course, has to go to Usyk for capitalizing on the opportunity afforded him, continuing to apply pressure and creating something from that situation. In spite of a diminished Fury, this could only have been achieved by someone with immense character, ability, the will to win and the harnessing of all three to pull out the moments that matter in contests of such magnitude.

 

I said on average and durability doesn’t just include chin.

But I won’t contradict myself because I have said before that any man over a certain weight, in all possibility, has sufficient power to knock any other man out, size disadvantage notwithstanding.

In general, I think durability can increase with greater size, but again, the rate of incremental advantages gradually decrease above a certain weight threshold.

Suffice to say, the differences are more pronounced when you’re talking divisions below that of HW.

 

All respect for your opinion MM.

I might just have to say I disagree on several points.

Usyk did a lot of ground work in the first third of the fight. He was already connecting and hurting Fury.

He hit some bumpy waters in the mid rounds -, but, as per rep, he rode it out and came back on, not just in round 9, but through round 8 also.

I also don’t see the same scorecard advantage for Fury going into the 8th either.

Usyk isn’t the same as he used to be either - and this has been ignored in deference to exclusive focus on Fury’s current state.

In fact, not being quite as fast and mobile as he used to be - losses in his own speed, mobility, and stamina were arguably more impacting on his own, overall effectiveness.

Versus both AJ and Fury, Usyk was the notably smaller but better skilled man but being the smaller man, it’s inherent that he has always still had to work that much harder than his much larger opponent - and his incredible engine has been credited many times previously.

The preconception I was directly referring to was that, as Fury is in the here and now, a member said that it was his fight to lose.

Clearly, in the event of his losing (which he did) that sets up a prejudiced and circular judgment of his performance after the fact.

Otherwise, sure, there were question marks as to how much Fury might’ve gone back.

But I highlighted that, after the Ngannou fight, many still felt that a completely focused and properly trained Fury would turn the trick - and there were in fact many who believed this.

Atop that, I wouldn’t say that Fury survived the KD - imo, as laid it my previous post, it really should’ve been stopped.

We need to also pause and allow for the energy Usyk expended in trying to achieve that KO - only for the ref to basically save Fury from same - which I’ve also expanded on in my previous post.

As to Fury’s punch resistance - I know you’re not just talking about holding your feet but also recuperative powers.

Notwithstanding same, Fury did suffer previous KDs and the true merits of his chin have been questioned.

As to the Wilder KD when Fury dropped like a dead man - IIRC, he just made it up before 10 - he was inexplicably was allowed more time to recover - all up 23 seconds from the time his ass hit the canvas until the fight was waved back on.

Curiously, after Ngannou dropped him, Fury was again allowed exactly the same amount of time to recover - a whole 23 seconds after touching down.

Fighting on the front foot wasn’t necessarily the answer for Fury imo. He set himself up to do that several rounds later, after some nice body work combined with Usyk notably tiring within himself - again, the accent shouldn’t just be on what Fury was and now isn’t or what Fury did or didn’t do - Olek is very much in the same boat, at the very least.

Rightly or wrongly, the question of whether Usyk has gone back has also been raised previously, and there were some who raised same after the Dubois fight.

Usyk’s activity rate hasn’t been earth shattering either - he arguably lost out on the postponement far more than Fury did - and Usyk himself had already gone through two hard 12 rounders vs AJ (another SHW who Fury himself still hasn’t managed to face) and the rematch was closer - so that was a possible sign of Usyk himself having taken a step back from his best self.

As the smaller man in the division mixing it with bigger men, Usyk’ own longevity at HW was always going to be limited - greater wear/tear.

I could also say that Usyk perhaps intended to fight far more aggressively than Fury anticipated - at the greater risk of copping return fire - but with the reward of putting some hurt on Fury early - which Usyk did - to both head and body.

Adapting and reacting exactly to the fighter and task at hand - a significant, intangible attribute, of course.

Prior to round 9, Usyk had already clearly shaken Fury on multiple occasions - and I would judge those shots in their own right to have had plenty of steam on them. Hr certainly cracked Fury square on the nose multiple times - and if not literally shaken on each occasion - they all certainly still hurt Fury big time.

I also don’t think it was a super close fight.

Finally, if Fury did fight dumb (which really, is atop multiple excuses being made for the man), then stupid is as stupid does - boxing IQ being as real an asset as any other feature to an ATG’s armoury.

Not arguing my friend but I just do see some things a bit differently on this one.

But all things are obviously still open to and for discussion. I want to rewatch the fight anyway.

 

Pretty rich coming from the guy trying to argue Carnera was superior to Fury.

 

Weren't you one of the guys who picked Carnera over Bowe in that thread?

 

Don't have much time right now to address this whole post, but regarding Fury getting 23+ seconds to recover against Wilder I agree, and I'll probably get stoned for this considering how much this forum despises Wilder, but I honestly think if he didn't get that absurd recovery time, he was going to be KTFO.

A mentally inferior Wilder very nearly did it in their third fight.

 

Carnera has wins over the "middleweights" that he fought. Fury can't say that.

 

I agree, Fury's been on the decline since the second bout. Primarily due to inactivity and aging, but also because he took some serious punishment from Wilder in all three bouts, even the second one.

That's precisely why he avoided the trilogy bout imo, and only agreed to it when he was literally taken to court. He wasn't scared of losing per se, but didn't really wanna take the punishment he'd have to incur, even in victory.

Quite simply, that trilogy took years off both of their careers imo.

I don't think either of them have been the same since.

Though I also think Fury was in top shape, and put on an excellent performance. He simply lost to the better man.