Has Usky just demolished the myth of the modern superheavyweight?

Fury inexplicably gets a lot of leeway when he's hurt.

-First Wilder fight, the Ref counted to about 12, had him go for a stroll, and did a CNN interview before allowing the fight to continue.

-Wallin fight, Fury looked like he stuck his face in a blender but they gave him the benefit of the doubt and let it continue. He had blood seeping faster than a guy trying to stop a bus for work.

-Third Wilder fight, another fairly slow count.

-Francis fight, Fury was so bruised up you'd think he got sucker punched and rubbed in an alley.

-Usyk fight, Fury was stumbling around from pillar to post. Once again, the ref wasted time than asking more questions than a cop in an interrogation room, and Fury was literally saved by the bell.

Both Wilder and Usyk may have KOd Fury with less incompetent refs, and several refs may have stopped those bouts. There were other knockdowns aside from these as well, such as Cunningham. I'm not saying he has a glass jaw, he's tough and has insane powers of recuperation. But Fury has been hurt plenty and did get a ton of leeway from refs when it came to dodging stoppage losses.

 

Great answer

 

Top post especially about the KD.

 

I don't discount the work of Usyk in the first third but he was being made to work a little harder for it than he'd had too against, say, Joshua and Dubois, IMO. And, was Usyk hurting Fury at this stage? Personally, I wouldn't say so, but this looks to be the source of divergence on our scoring perhaps?

Ignored in deference to...? Harsh words, Pug!

How obvious is Usyk's slide, though?

Compare Usyk in his fights vs AJ and Dubois, with his performance this weekend, and you'll be hard-pressed to find significantly distinct differences in form. This is in stark contrast to Fury, whose wheels looked to have completely flown off his form-wagon, against Ngannou.

It is also both interesting and pertinent to the subject of the thread that you mention Usyk's engine since I'd suggest his smaller stature is no minor contributing factor to that aspect of Usyk's ability (rarely seen in today's heavyweight division, but less rare in previous eras, perhaps).

I kept an open mind myself, but purposely refrained from taking a punt on the bout because Fury, in my view, had become an unknown quantity. (Incidentally, @Seamus bet on a Usyk win - take from that what you will)

Suffices to say that, to a fair extent, I can concur with the notion that this was Fury's fight to lose, whilst accepting Usyk still needed to make it happen and acknowledging that Usyk achieved this.

Here, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Why do we? It was a fight. Usyk went for the stoppage, eventually put Fury down and, as the action resumed, the bell sounded. So, he expended some energy. That's the fight game, surely? In other words - Thems the breaks.

I'm not all that concerned with the time that elapsed during Fury's KD episodes - That's more the domain of YouTube conspiracy theorists.

The point made, as you rightly highlight, was his ability to speedily recover from shots.

Fury was put down on multiple occasions by one of the hardest punchers in history, got up and got on with the job. Against Ngannou, Fury was also aware of himself and his surroundings, despite it being a heavy knockdown.

Against Usyk, he was, as Johnny Nelson put it, a "bag of spaghetti".

There's a clear difference between his reaction to KDs from notable punchers and what happened to him against Uysk - not known has a big hitter. And that, in my view, is the first sign of a shot fighter.

I don't think I agree with this take. But I accept and respect that this is the perspective you are taking.

Fair to speculate but not visibly apparent, in my opinion.

The man had had 21 professional bouts going into the Fury fight and only 5 of those had been at Heavyweight. I don't think I can consider the wear and tear on him all that much, to be frank.

Usyk landed some good shots throughout and they all count, of course, but you'll have to point out this early "hurt" to me. As far as I can recall, he didn't actually visibly hurt Fury until the 8th. Prepared to take another look, of course.

Again, I think we can agree to disagree here.

All fair enough Pug - I don't think anyone is trying to absolve Fury of his mistakes - just to point out that there were some rather obvious ones (from the perspectives of some of us) and, as more than merely hinted at in my last post, nothing should be taken away from Usyk. Great performance.

 

I think that sums it up quite nicely, though I would question not so much Fury's shape but the extent to which his wear, tear, lifestyle and ring age have caught up with him and his ability to perform at the top level.

Usyk was the better man on the night and the unfortunate paradox is that, with Fury being at the end of the road, as I suspect he is, he'll not likely be able to attain the level needed to reverse that perspective in a rematch.

(I'm not even convinced the rematch will actually take place.)

 

I’ve been away awhile but wanted to say I enjoyed the fight and yes the super hw thing has always been a myth. We just have to many fighters wrongfully bulking when they would be better if they had more stamina speed and style. Hope all is well

 

1. Who are these mysterious "you guys", you keep referring to? Fantasy matchups come up here all the time and the smaller fighter is always competitive in polling. Hell, some of us won many a pound sterling betting on Usyk. This "nobody believed in Usyk beating Fury cuz he's smoller" shtick is pure fantasy that you're indulging in to pretend you're some sort of iconoclastic prophet, when you've not said anything remotely insightful.

2. Why do you insist on acting like boxers are identical clones that are determined by "bigger" and "smaller"? I made a JOKE about someone in this thread saying that Usyk beating Fury is proof of Sam Langford being able to do it, and within 24 hours you said "Sam Langford beat Bill Tate, what's the difference?" as if Tate and Fury are identical boxers because they're both the "taller" The logic you're operating on that right now would legitimately have you fail primary school logic tests.

3. You've in essence said "A 220lber can beat a 260lbs man, therefore a 180lber could beat that same 260lbs man".

The percentage difference in mass between a 260lber and a 220lber is approximately 18% whilst the percentage difference in mass between a 260lber and a 180lber is 44%.

A 18% difference in mass is around the difference in mass between Vitali Klitschko and Chris Byrd.

A 44% difference in mass is around the difference in mass between Vitali Klitschko and Canelo Alvarez.

So you saying that Usyk beating Fury is evidence that an 180lbs man can too...is equivalent to saying that Chris Byrd beating Vitali Klitschko is evidence that Canelo Alvarez could have beat him too.

Which is ****ing stupid.

 

Thank you for dismissing the stupid "Fury only lost because he was messing around". People say it like taunting and fighting are mutually exclusive, as if Ali didn't taunt whilst avoiding punches or as if RJJ didn't KTFO of somebody with his hands behind his back "Serious" Fury wouldn't change anything, stop the damage control. This was arguably the 2nd best performance of his entire career and he lost even with favourable conditions.

In regards to mauling and leaning though, boxing has never just been striking. It's always involved a degree of grappling that I think adds to the diversity of fighting styles and outcomes of the sport imo, I'm all for it.

 

This could be argued - but I think one could choose from any of the Wlad, Wilder I, and Wilder II bouts and make a case for them being better.

 

Welcome back! I very rarely agreed with you but always enjoyed your perspectives.

 

As pointed out earlier Fury lacks attributes that one would expect SHWs to have that would trouble smaller fighters. He's not a big puncher and he has a suspect chin. He also does not appear to be very physically strong for his size. For a smaller man moving up in weight he seems like a good matchup due to lacking in these qualities.

 

Usky -

 

His punch resistance has certainly degraded. Despite his body aesthetics, I do believe he is pretty strong in a country strong way. He knows how to use his long levers. I think most of his problems are from the neck up.

 

He is very strong. He doesn’t use it enough.