The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

Improvements in skill and ring IQ? Sure.

Improvements in athleticism? Absolutely not.

No athlete gets "better" in terms of mileage after 20 years. Wrist pain, back injuries, broken hands, knockout losses, rescued ligament strength, bad knees, reduced reflexes/timing, muscle cramps, worse eyesight, these are but a handful of the multitude of problems older athletes face once they're past 36 even in today's climate with improvements in medicine and sports science. Even LeBron James, the poster boy of investing in and taking care of his body, just isn't the same athlete at 40 compared to how he was in his prime.

This is simply reality. Even a 40 year old whose never boxed a day in his life will perform worse than if he debuted in his 20's.

To dismiss all the various issues that spring up for a boxer whose been in 170+ fights across 20 years like Moore is either sheer ignorance or delusion. Again, Moore gained valuable experience and no doubt improved in his skill, ring IQ, technique, etc. All the intangibles that make a boxer truly great went up. But at the same time, his physical stats declined. Literally any pro boxer or coach will tell you things like endurance, reflexes, the spring in the legs, etc will start to decline in your early 30's and then rapidly decline in your late 30's/early 40's. This was even more clear in Rocky's era when people were fighting half a dozen times a year with even longer rounds.

 

I think it was a great era top to bottom, from feather to heavyweight.

(Charles, Moore, Johnson, Robinson, LaMotta, Cerdan, Gavilan, Graham, Basilio, Williams, Pep, Saddler)

That list compares to any era, I think.

 

The same people who will insist he was 38 are the same people who will insist age is just a number and that Moore aged like wine and wasn't hampered by his advanced mileage/age.

 

We are only concerned with the heavyweights here.

 

Moore stated his legs were gone by the time of the Marciano fight.

 

Once again avoiding Marciano’s other opponents.
Rex Layne was 34-1
Lastarza 37-0
Matthews 81-3
When they met all in prime. Is it Rocky’s fault that Walcott, Charles, and Moore were all better?
Layne was damn good and in prime could have hung w anyone as he proved beating Walcott and Charles.
Louis was old but still winning fights off his jab and smarts. Not sure y u would think the old heads having more fights make them less quality wins if they were still viable opponents at the time. U have not addressed this. Was Moore not beating everyone at the time? Usyk had 300 amateur bouts despite being 37 was he worn down when he beat the younger Tyson Fury?

 

This is misleading. He beat a young up and comer in Brion who was a good fighter. HOF fighter Jimmy Bivins who would be ranked again shortly. Formerly ranked Freddie Beshore and Agromante x2. That’s not a list of nobodies.

 

"Improvements in athleticism? Absolutely not."

The hidden premise is that "athleticism" decides fights. If so, how did an old geezer like Moore in 1954 defeat Harold Johnson? More was either 37 or 40. Johnson was 26. So Moore was at least a decade older and had a ton more fights and wear and tear. But Moore came on strong in the championship rounds and stopped Johnson.

Prime? Johnson was in his physical prime. Moore past his. So being prime is certainly not decisive.

"Moore gained valuable experience and no doubt improved his skill, ring IQ, technique, etc."

Yes. Could he have won without that experience? We don't know. All we know is that with it he won over a fine fighter who was in his prime.

"things like endurance, reflexes, the spring in the legs, etc. will start to decline in your early 30's and then rapidly decline in your late 30's"

You mention endurance, but old Moore came on in the late rounds against both Johnson in 1954 against the younger and bigger Valdes in 1955. Your theories apply to the average, but not to exceptional fighters. So what do you do with the exceptions?

Sort of like with the general population. Let's say the average life expectancy of some group is 75. How many live exactly 75 years. Probably very few. Most die earlier or later. And you have to acknowledge the few who because of DNA or luck, live past 100.

Your theory fails because it is procrustean.

 

Agreed. But my point is that the top to bottom strength of the era undercuts arguments that this or that event, even one as major as World War 2, decimated the quality of boxing and boxers.

 

Moore was 38 just look up his tombstone

 

Moore was 38 a simple google search of his tombstone will prove this

 

1916 is the year listed on his memorial over at find a grave.

I wouldn't go to the wall about how old he was and I have seen no definitive date of birth, but 38 is currently in my judgment the best bet for his age when he fought Marciano. Why lie on a tombstone?

How much anyone is hampered by age or mileage depends on how well they are fighting, not theories about age or mileage.

 

Why weren't they "gone" at the time of the Valdes fight when Moore came on strong in the last three rounds of a 15 round fight.

The problem with quotes is that humans have egos and so searching for this or that "reason" for failure is the norm. Most can find such a reason in later years.

 

Layne was so bad that Dempsey had tore him apart in only slightly veiled remarks in the into to one of his books. Look at that dude on film. All slow twitch, not strong, not big. He could take a pounding. I'll give him that. The only thing remarkable about him was the depleted era in which he fought.

Matthews was a complete and total hype job, called out by many of his contemporaries. Jack Hurley gets all the credit for any accomplishment dude made. I do like the way that Rocky took him out, though. That double left hook was a thing of efficient brutality.

There are only two reasons anyone knows Lastarza's name. One is that Rocky had fits with him the first time around and the Marciano fanatics need to bolster him to keep the dam from bursting on their mythology. The second is he made some cameos in Batman. I prefer his work opposite Burt Ward to that opposite Marciano.

 

Agramonte had not been ranked for2 years
Beshore had not been ranked for3 years

Moore was born the13th of December 1913.
He fought Marciano on the 20th of September 1955. Look up Box Rec for the ratings and DOB. Or if she was still alive you could have asked his Mother.