Who was better, the Louis that Schmeling beat or the Ali that Frazier beat?

I agree that Louis got better.

However, Louis's weakness to the straight right that Schmeling exploited couldn't be exploited by Frazier who didn't have a great straight right. I am not sure Frazier beats any pre-Charles version of Louis.

 

Fair enough.

 

Ali because the Schmeling loss taught Louis how to deal with adversity. The thing that made Louis the most dangerous is whenever someone knocked him down or hurt him they usually got no momentum from it. I don't think they scored knockdowns back then but besides the Walcott fight it didn't even matter because Louis usually didn't let the fight go the distance. Before the Schmeling and Braddock fights Louis didn't have this. He was just a big fast guy who hit hard.

Ali was 29 and probably was at the best mix of physical prime and in ring experience. Louis was 22 and was still in the "green" phase of his career.

 

Ali for me, he was the more experienced at that time, he'd proven him self at championship level.

 

Essentially why I picked Ali as well. There is a lot gained between ages 29 & 22, between having been a Champion, & not.

 

Joe Louis.

 

An interesting story from Donovan on Louis' weakness to the right hand after the Schmeling fight I thought you might like

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I think Ali was significantly better..

 

That is pretty close to where i am right this minute.

 

Nice question. Tough to answer.

Would have to go Ali.

 

While I wouldn't necessarily say scraping-rust '71 Ali was generally better, or necessarily even so good, as a priming-trajectory '36 Louis, I suspect that on the particular nights (Schmeling I, Frazier I), Ali might have been better, because less distracted/better prepared. Not saying Ali wouldn't have liked to tune'd up more, and there's a sense that he probably was always going to be in for some degree of shock the first time he met Frazier; but Louis had taken up-honeymooning, philandering, and golf-green wooing and wasn't getting the mid-day/night-time rest that helps the learning pour in and stick, and was also underweight and not in a good condition, physoi-mentally, to be taking hard knocks with his usual recuperation.

 

Ali was better, for SURE! Louis couldn't even hang with Max and dumped in four rounds

It took 15 rounds with Joe just to finally get him down. but he didnt stay there