Where does Usyk's win over Fury rate amongst other big significant wins at Heavyweight ?

Not an unreasonable post. I don't agree with some of it, but ok.
I agree that Usyk is not and cannot be top 10 HW all time as he won't have enough fights in that division when he retires. But yes, he is an ATG overall due to his COMBINED CW and HW record. Top 20 probably?

 

Far better than all of those but not as much of a shock.

 

Well considering it was the first undisputed since Lewis id say its pretty historic.. lived up to it too.. could have been a stinker , but both men played their part in a classic.. yes some of the sheen had gone after Fury put on that dire display against Ngannou but its clear he was taking that fight as a joke.. i mean look what the much more basic AJ did to Ngannou.. Fury of the Wilder , Vlad & Usyk fights school Ngannou.. Usyk got a career defining win

 

I actually do really like and rate usyk
Maybe I'm a tad harsh on this forum, because I think overall goat is a bit much

However, I do concede he can only beat who is out there and he's 100 % for me the p4p number 1, despite being an Inoue fan and respecting Bud

Usyk is great, no matter where we rate him.
Personally I rate Fury, but this forum makes him out like he's a bum. It kind of robs Usyk of a great victory

Because let's get real. Despite Fury struggling and not hurting Ngannou, he didn't actually lose. The mcdermott fight was many moons ago. So essentially if you rate Fury? Then Usyk has an amazing scalp along with Aj x 2 and the work at CW

 

I do not like Fury, the man. But the boxer Fury has many positive aspects for such a big guy. Fast, uses his insane 85" reach well, good footwork, but above all an amazing ability to recuperate from the dead. On the negative....not a good chin which can be fatal at HW. His height and reach and weight give him advantages that would give any HW problems. If he was 6'2" we would never have heard of him.
He'd be fighting Babic and losing to the Whtyes and Chisoras of the UK. But that's in another dimension not ours.

His fanboys are repulsive like any fanboy base. They make him up to be immortal for beating Wilder. Yet they constantly diminish Wilder. As you say, can't have it both ways.

 

You can hate Fury, but like you say above, why not rate him? He is good

I don't like Aj and find his fans disgusting, but I acknowledge for this era he's a top name.

 

Very high, for multiple reason:

Fury is:
19 months younger
40+ pounds heavier
19cm. reach advantage
16cm. height advantage
Was the Big A Side
Brought referee + judges

Also ducking Usyk for good 2 years in order to age him out. Usyk was 37,5 years old, and the fight happen at the exact date and hour Fury wanted. It was all on Fury terms, and he still get his head smashed around the ring. Then first the referee robbed Usyk of 100% deserved TKO, and then 1 of the corrupt judges robbed Usyk of 100% deserved UD victory.

Oh, and if that's not enough. There was plenty of low blows, rabbit punches, holding and hitting in the clinch and on top of that a headbutt from Fury, that caused cut over Usyk right eye, which referee somehow miss(we all know how), just for the same referee to call that cut caused by a punch 2 rounds later(incompetent or corrupt, judge it by yourself).

Oh, and if that's not enough, Fury and all the media before the fight had already proclaimed Fury to be the GOAT.

 

Usyk is a great fighter.

It’s not a case of resisting his due all time rating in blind deference to past masters - rather - one still has to properly consider the actual resumes of the prior ATG HWs he’s being rated against.

Those past ATG resumes are nothing to be sneezed at.

The number of fights at HW most certainly do count if you properly factor the effects of the wear/tear incurred by past HW ATGs in proving themselves against a greater number of quality opponents over a longer period.

Over two careers, Ali fought everyone there was to fight, picking the title up 3 times along the way. The Spinks loss/victory isn’t as strong a regaining of the title in my book - but it is there.

Even putting aside some questionable decisions (I only reject the official decision for Norton III), every possible name is on his resume, and he basically proved himself to be undoubtedly superior to his opposition each and every time out.

I think Fury himself should broaden his horizons and fight AJ.

He should even rematch Ngannou if that’s possible - many past ATGs didn’t allow less than stellar performances, controversial decisions or outright losses to pass without due redress and correction.

That Lennox Lewis reversed his two losses was a big deal - and contributes very much to the perception of how great a fighter he was.

I personally think there were more substantive stylistic problems for Fury (than given credit for), embedded in the dynamic between he and Francis.

Of course I could be wrong, but let’s see Fury materially prove that the complexion of the Ngannou fight was an actual anomaly.

An undertrained and over confident Ali who lost to Norton might’ve said **** that to a rematch - and perhaps he might’ve been given the benefit of the doubt if he some how never faced Ken again.

But Ali did face Norton twice more - and Norton’s successes against Muhammad were proven to be very much real and not just due to the context of the first fight when Ali was under prepared and had his jaw broken.

If Fury had beaten Usyk, I’m not sure that he wouldn’t have retired. He was treating it as his “all in” fight - a disproportional shot at and claim for redemption - an undue inheritance of Usyk’s own successes and proven superiorities.

After plying some outlandish excuses after the fight, I now see that Fury is really accenting on his “thinking” that he was ahead in the fight and that if he knew he was behind and advised same by his corner, he would’ve done more in the later rounds to win it.

1) I don’t believe Fury could do anymore than he did do and further, I believe he knows that

2) If it was true, then Fury would be admitting that he didn’t leave it all in the ring - not the stuff of an ATG.

On the other side of the ledger, Usyk spared nothing of himself, in a fight for the Undisputed Championship, no less.

Of course Fury is very good but so many false excuses plied by and behalf of Fury - it really has become tiresome....

 

but consistency also counts when measuring a fighters level. it aint about what you may have the ability to do, but what you actually end up doing, that defines you.
never met a fighter that would rather be training than out spending their money, but a real champion has it inside him to take control of his destiny. we can all preemptively leave excuses for our failures, so we got something to blame instead of finding out who we really are.

 

Did you want the fight stopping because you were concerned that Fury was going to get brutally knocked out?

 

His right hands to the body looked deadly. Heavy thuding shots. His reflexes were better than I thought. Usyk worked him into the ground

 

Would make a good movie when you put it like that.

 

This is a really great take.

 

I think Usyk would've been p1551ng blood for a few days. He took a lot of hard clean shots to the body too. Usyk's mental strength is on another level.

 

Usyk should have had a 9th round KO so considering Usyk KO'd Fury when Wilder could not.. that's a massive achievement.

No one has ever really hurt Fury that much, they simply knocked him down.

Usyk had Fury seeing stars.