The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

His defense was better than Listons and Liston may be the one former champ Rocky was faster than. Rocky had an advantage inside in every fight he had against much faster and more skilled fighters than Liston. This is painfully obvious. Not sure why one would assume he wouldn’t have the advantage. Listons bread and butter was at range. Not inside.

 

Liston killed Patterson inside twice, name a single shorter guy who had the better of him in close.I disagree about their speed I think Liston was quicker.

 

I am leaving this here on the basis of its hilarity alone.

 

Liston 6ft 1 in 218 lbs 84 in reach .
Marciano 5 ft 101/2in 185lbs 68 in reach.
2 1/2in height
33lbs weight
16 inches reach
I've read 4 Marciano biographies,I can't recall any of them saying he was,"extremely nervous",or that he ,"came out cold ,"against Walcott. Do you have a source for this? Apart from in the 1 st Marshall fight and against Ali which boxer outskilled Liston?

 

We are evaluating Johnny Schkor not Johnny Flynn.
Knox had won just 1 of his last 9 fights.
Maxim was conceding 26 lbs to Flynn.
Gomez was conceding 32lbs.

 

We've been over this about 10x in the past 3-4 years. We are simply not going to agree that Rocky was "extremely skilled defensively". No idea which fights you're watching but I simply do not see that at all.

Liston doesn't need to be as skilled as Rocky's most skilled opponents. This would be like a black bear vs a grizzly bear. Rocky is fighting fire with fire attempting to outwork and out slug a man 3 inches taller, 30 lbs heavier, who hits harder, and has a 16' reach advantage. Show me a single example of this Napoleon complex fantasy happening at any point in the history of boxing.

 

I called Shkor a big man who was a fringe contender. I think that's a fair label.

 

Yeah I didn't get that either. Liston was visibly quicker imo. Their were also heavyweight champions slower than Liston as well.

 

Regarding Shkor being 9th after his win over Mauriello, do you have a source for that? When asked by Suzie if Shkor was rated, here's his response

Fair enough regarding Flynn. I concede the point.

 

LIston destroyed people on the inside, he was brutal there and could knock you out. Liston could fight at all ranges and was multi faceted. As a matter of fact he's one of the best technical heavyweights there's been. It's just a terrible match for Rocky and i wouldn't back him to win if they fought in a phone booth. He's better matched against guys like Ali, Holmes, Norton et al where up front and personal would be an advantage when he could get there.

 

I would not consider Shkor a fringe contender, and a win over him means sfa in my opinion. Countless fighters demonstrated you didn't have to be world-class to beat him.

 

I agree. Liston was formidable at all ranges, and imo would beat Rocky there as well. He could also of course, use his jab and enormous reach advantage to prevent Marciano from getting inside in the first place. He has a multitude of options here.

 

Well he broke the top ten at some point so he's the very definition of a fringe contender.

All it proves is that Rocky can beat a SHW size fringe contender.

Anything beyond that is courtesy of "The Shkor Extrapolation"

 

Even if he did break the top ten (which I found zero proof of, but I'll take your word for it), he was at the end of the road against Marciano, and coming off a first round KO loss to Walcott. So even if he was a fringe contender at one point, those days had past.

Also, I don't think he reaches fringe contender status in any era beyond the 60s. He simply wasn't much chops imo.

 

When was he ever ranked?