The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

At which point did he break the top ten? Shkor was a journeyman.
In Nov 1948 Joe Louis gave a 4 rds exhibition with Skkor in Boston Arena Louis got a cut from a butt
A year later they had a 10rds exhibition,the retired Louis floored Shkor 3 times ,once in the 2nd and twice in the 3rd,then he took his foot off the pedal for the remainder of the exhibition.

 

I know you have zero proof, as I've said you guys don't have the monthly issues.

Neither do I, for what it's worth. But years ago I discussed this with a poster who does.

I did a thread called something like "heavyweight resumes against people who have been ranked in the top ten at some point" and I had used the annual rankings to populate my resume lists, Hhascup then filled the gaps using monthly rankings. He did it with more than just Marciano because it wasn't a Marciano thread, but Marciano was included.

But for me the point I'm making is, Marciano was able to beat a big guy who was a fringe contender, so by using "The Shkor Extrapolation" you can begin to imagine him against big guys or gradually increasing quality. This means you don't just say Marciano loses because a good guy is too big. He loses because a big guy is too good.

 

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...ition-who-have-featured-in-the-top-10.323375/

hhascup - Rocky fought 13 different Opponents 16 times that were rated at one time or another in the top 10 in the World. (16-0)
Beshore, Charles 2, Cockell, LaStarza 2, Layne, Louis, Matthews, Moore, Muscato, Reynolds, Savold, Shkor and Walcott 2.

 

Fair enough.

I just don't think this argument is particularly useful because you can use this argument for literally anybody who beat Schkor or a similarly subpar SHW (ala Dempsey-Willard except Willard was far more skilled against Dempsey).

 

Marciano may well beat Dempsey (though I'd favor Dempsey because he'd be far and away the most powerful, and more importantly the fastest fighter Marciano ever fought)

But that's not as important as how they would do against the rest of the field.

Dempsey is bigger, and more importantly faster which would aid him greatly against stylistic mismatches.

For example I don't think Marciano disposes of Willard quite as easily as Dempsey did and would need a couple rounds to break him down.

While I wouldn't favor either of them against guys like Liston, and Foreman, I'd give Dempsey the much better chance because he has the speed advantage Marciano lacks.

Regarding Marciano's record, he's 49-0, and did the absolute best he could with the best available. His division wasn't the best granted, but that's hardly his fault. You couldn't really ask much more of him aside from defending against Valdez as opposed to Cockell, but it was the only time he didn't fight his number one contender so I can't fault him to much on that end.

He's my number 3 or 4 for what it's worth.

 

We're in some common groups on Facebook. He's still very active, so I assume all is well.

 

Boy, you & I do a lot of mutual head nodding on this site, don’t we? I don’t have Marciano that high personally, but the entire rest of this post could word for word represent me.

 

We also agree Holmes is vastly overrated. I was actually gonna mention it in my post but didn't feel it was particularly relevant.

 

Number 3 or 4 at what?

Out of respect to you I am ruling out as being a heavyweight, so what is it?

 

Rest assured I am willing to say that about Holmes for you at a moments notice!

 

Foreman is frequently picked to outslug guys 30 pounds heavier than himself. Like Joyce, Bakole, Zhang, etc.

 

Yup, and some of them were ranked extremely high when he fought them.

 

Of course. But it isn't anybody else who gets pitted in threads against SHW sized men alongside the assumption that he isn't big enough.

The extrapolation is all we have.

 

Absolutely.

 

Thank you.