The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

Not by my definition.

Weill did not want Marciano to fight Mathews he was persuaded by Jim Norris.
Barney Nagler was a well respected boxing journalist and author.

Barney Nagler (ibhof.com)
How many Mathews fights have you seen?

Harry Matthews vs. Danny Nardico.HW.1951.12.05 (youtube.com)

Harry Matthews defeats Baby Dutch Culbertson in a boxing bout in Portland, Oregon...HD Stock Footage (youtube.com)


Bob Murphy vs. Harry Matthews (Partial Clip) (youtube.com)

 

A few but not a ton. Walcott, Louis, Moore, Layne Reynolds Shkor even Charles could punch. Were there any murderers? Louis was to far gone to call him a murderer. Walcott and Archie were elite punchers. More in the boxer sense. But there were no Tysons or Foremans admittedly.

 

Hurley knew Matthews couldn't even beat light heavy Maxim and wouldn't accept the 20% offer from the IBC. He admitted that Matthews didn't even know how to box when he met the fighter already 12 years into his career. He wanted to cash in his chips while there was still value. After getting past Nardico, Hurley even admitted that Matthews "looked bad. He was hit more than he's been hit in a year. I picked up some Chicago papers after the fight and they were full of letters about what a lousy fighter he was."

According to the Jersey Journal on July 16, 52... "(Hurley's) maneuvering of Harry Matthews into a bout with Rocky Marciano was a masterpiece of managerial acumen."

Hurley himself sums up Matthews in a quote from the Albany Times-Union July 14, 1952...
"I'm not saying The Athlete (Matthews) is a great fighter. He's merely a pretty good fighter. But compared with the bums we have around today... You may say he is only 50 per cent of the fighter the old gentleman (Billy Petrolle) was."

A real worldbeater. Let's stack that up as one Marciano's great heavyweight wins.

 

Both HOF light heavies. I think Conn was slightly better despite facing not as good competition. Maxim was in the golden age of LHW imo. I don’t think Conn fares much better against the likes of Charles, Moore, Harold Johnson etc. I think on film and paper Matthews had a stellar record and passed the eye test. He gets a bit underrated all time. Anyone’s record can be picked apart. He should have taken the title fight though. Hurt his legacy but management cared more about the pay day w Marciano then their fighters long term success

 

Here is another recent take on Hurley and Matthews from Seattle:

"Hurley ignored critics' charges that the solid offer of a light-heavyweight championship fight with Maxim was better for Matthews than the offer of a heavyweight 'elimination bout' with Marciano. Supporters argued Matthews might well have beaten Maxim. Hurley they insisted, pushed Matthews where he should not have gone."

"The Marciano fight was no less a defining moment for Jack Hurley. Knowledgeable criticism of him for sending Matthews into the heavyweight division has endured. And Hurley had indeed felt the sting."

"In later years Hurley sharpened his criticism to the press corps about Harry's "glass jaw' and inability to hit with authority. But he had been discredited as a manager."
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The bottom line for me is that Murphy and Nardico did about as well as against Maxim as against Matthews. So off common opponents I think a Maxim-Matthews matchup would have been competitive and effectively a toss-up. Both would have lost eventually to Moore.

Apparently some think Hurley took the Marciano bout knowing Matthews would lose it. That doesn't make a lot of sense. And it doesn't explain why Hurley was the picture of confidence before the bout. I think far more likely is that he was rolling the dice for the big one. He thought Matthews would outpoint Marciano. And then prove able to beat the aging Walcott to put Hurley in the heavyweight driver's seat.

All these quotes from Hurley, who had his own bloated ego involved, don't deal with neutral observers like Fleischer, Heinz, and Nagler thinking so highly of Matthews.

 

"Weill did not want Marciano to fight Matthews. He was persuaded by Jim Norris."

Interesting point.

"How many Matthews fights have you seen?"

About as many as any modern guy has. My respect is for the opnions of the guys who were at ringside for his fights and gave their takes on his ability.

 

We were talking weight. My point was that looking at him one can see Matthews was a real light-heavyweight, not a puffed up middle.

 

This is exactly right. Hurley was a selfish dirtbag imo. Instead of taking the blame he tried to pin it on his fighter. Hurley should have taken the shot at the LHW crown but saw more money in a Marciano bout

 

I watched the Matthews - Marciano video and it looks like Matthews still didn't know much about boxing. He kept his right leg far behind his right shoulder which affected his balance, movement, and power, whenever he threw the right hand he lifted (instead of pushing off and pivoting his right foot) his right leg like a baseball pitcher, and usually he "walked" the right foot forward after the punch leaving him in a squared up position in front of Marciano. He even lifted the right leg when he jabbed so his jab had no push from the right leg/foot. Marciano kept his right foot under his right shoulder, pivoted his right foot with the right hand, etc. In this fight Marciano looked like a much better trained fighter than Matthews.

 

The guy who beat Ezzard Charles, Bob Murphy, Rex Layne, Lloyd Marshall, Danny Nardico knows nothing about boxing…but u do? if you’ve ever watched Roy Jones or James Braddock you’ve watched Harry Matthews. Was the same counter punching style and they all did things in a similar manner. Lots of jumping in w quick combos and jumping out. They would pick and choose when to throw hard and often would confuse opponents w their fast style often moving in and out. Hence lifting the back foot on the jab which is unorthodox for most styles but common for them as they’re lunging forward. There is nothing not normal about Harry Matthews and he certainly wasn’t lacking in the skill department.

 

He was ranked, and had good career wins over contenders Flynn, Payne, and Mauriello. By no means a top contender, but a worthy addition to any resume.

 

Ring Magazine is not a sanctioning body. Being ranked by Ring magazine does not force a title fight.

 

Hurley's comments were that Matthews' stance was horrible, that he had no balance or leverage to hit hard. Matthews took offense to that and responded that he had KO'd plenty of fighters. Hurley responded, "Did they fall over out of exhaustion trying to chase you?"

 

67% KO rate over his career. When will the nonsense stop?

 

Do you really want to go against what his promoter/trainer had to say about him? Your Marciano Delusion Syndrome has leaked into your own self awareness. Seek help.