The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

U really want to go against what his record says? The low iq arguments are taking another level lately

 

Maybe an edge in durability for Marciano. Liston didn't endure a lot of punishment in his career. He took out Patterson before he could land anything and seemed to be getting hurt by Ali pretty early in the fight. Obviously the Martin kayo looks bad although he was past it.

 

What's Carnera's ko % ?
When Hurley took on Mathews he told him,"you don't know how to fight yet."

 

Broken nose and a broken jaw don't count?
Is it likely Liston did not take much more punishment than that I mentioned because his power took opponents out early,whereas Marciano usually needed multiple rounds to wear his opponents down?
Ever wonder how Marciano would have done against the top ten ranked Martin at the same age as Sonny,whatever that was?

 

What does his record say?
That he scored 61 stoppages.
25 of them over welters and middleweights.
25 over lhvy's.
11 over heavyweights.
Of those heavies his 2 best stoppage wins are over.
Phil Muscato who had been briefly ranked 3 years earlier , no 10 1947.
Muscato was a busted flush who had lost his last 6 fights 3 by ko.
BTW when Muscato fought Marciano he had lost his last 4.

Freddie Beshore who Mathews stopped on cuts had lost 6 of his last 8 fights,h later went the distance with Mathews and also drew with him.
Beshore had been no 10 in1948 the trouble is he fought Mathews in 1953!

These are Mathews notable stoppages at heavyweight,unless you know something Box Rec does not !
Below are Mathews other heavyweight stoppages.
Frank Buford 19-14-6 ko'd 16 times, lost 4 of last 6.
Bill Peterson 59-38-8 ko'd 26 times!,won 6 of last 15.
Doc Culbertson lost 16 of last 21.
Grant Butcher 17-6-2 won 2 of last 4.
Art Henri 14-21-1 won 4 of last 12.
Charley Eagle 32-55-7 won 3 of last 11.Having his lat fight.
George Kaplan 24-9-0lost his last 4 .Having his last fight.
Jack Nelson24-5-1,won 1 of his previous7 would lose next 3, ko'd 9 times.
Murray Burnett 5-25-1had lost his last 14,would lose 2 more and retire
Hadley Breshears 43-4-1 Impressive stats on paper but all nobodies.ko'd 4 times.
These are Mathews heavyweight stoppage wins.
See any names there Lamar Clark could not have ko'd?
Over 4 rds Butter Bean might have done as well.

 

Aside from an ancient, gunshy Joe Louis who had nothing but his jab and ring smarts left, the big men over 210 Rocky beat were trash. So there's no evidence he could beat quality big men such as Riddick Bowe or hell, even Ray Mercer.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a single instance of a boxer beating a skilled, strong boxer whose 30 lbs heavier in a slug fest.

 

I'm not wrong at all. Rocky wasn't a defensive wizard. Even the old school boxing writers at the time and his own opponents don't agree with you. You can bring up the Archie Mooore quote, but there's dozens of quotes criticizing Rocky for his lack of defense. "Defensive wizards" don't get black eyes and have their noses split open.

His offense was his defense. He was a rough, rugged guy who never backed off and he had an iron chin and tons of stamina. He also fought mostly pretty bad opponents and very few guys with serious power. There's several boxers who could have fought all 49 of Rocky's opponents without getting KOd. It doesn't prove he had good defense whatsoever.

Now for the 2nd time, show me a single match in boxing history where a smaller boxer defeats a stronger, larger one whose 30 lbs heavier in a slug fest.

 

Williams hit way harder than Ali and Liston took plenty of bombs from Williams in 2 fights. There's also the Folley fight where he takes a lot of punishment. Even if you give Rocky the edge in chin, it's not going to be a large amount. Liston was never floored outside of the extremely dubious and controversial rematch with Ali, and the Leotis Martin fight where he was a washed up 40 year old.

 

Roy Jones is comparable to Braddock and Harry Mathews...?

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104 fights with 1 ko win over a Ring ranked contender,
Bob Murphy no 3 at Lhvy.

 

You my friend need to utilise "The Shkor Extrapolation"

 

This thread has actually inspired me to do a rewatch of Rocky, but in a comparative way.

I'm going to watch, as best as I can, the best 8 years of Dempsey, Rocky, Holyfield, Usyk. And I'll post my findings on a thread on here.

 

Reynolds won 2 of last 4 stopped in both losses, won 1 of next 4 kod in3 of the losses and retired.
Savold coming off a bad beating by Louis had won 1 of last 3,would be suspended for life after Marciano fight.
Beshore won 2 of last 9.
Shkor had been kod in 1 round in last fight and had won 6 of last 13.
Louis 37 years old having his last fight.
Muscato had lost his last 4 ,would retire after 2 more fights.
Holes duly punched!

 

Hurley was right, any kid who has been in a gym 3 weeks and watched a video of Matthews would see that Matthews feet are wrong and in boxing, when the feet are wrong everything is wrong. I looked at Matthews' record and he has knockouts of Lloyd Marshal and Ted Lowery. How? Either they were completely shot at the time they fought Matthews or they were told before hand what they had to do. The Matthews I saw in the fight against Marciano doesn't look balanced enough to score knockouts over guys like Marshal or Lowery.

Lowery was losing to everybody by the time of the Matthews fight, but he wasn't being stopped. Then he goes from Ma. to Id. and gets stopped? I'd like to hear the story from Lowery behind that one. Marshal, had been knocked out by his two previous opponents before fighting Matthews so maybe he was walking on his heels and ready to fall over by then...seeing Marshal on video in his prime, it's hard to believe that he could ever lose to Matthews. There are other results I'd be suspicious about too...a SD loss to Don Cockell in the NW where Matthews was knocked down 3 times in one round, and lost by 10 points on one judges card but "won" the fight on another judges' card? That tells me that Matthews would be a hard man to win a decision over in his home area.

Watching Matthews fight and seeing his skill set, then seeing his W/L record shows that he had GREAT management.

 

Marshall was known to ,"do business",he had been ko'd in his 2 previous fights and hung them up after the Mathews fight.