The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

VALDES WAS THE NUMBER 2 CONTENDER WHEN LISTON KOD HIM.

 

I’ve stated it a million times. Archie Moore is an elite puncher. Yes
Who tf cares if he’s on someone’s list? I’ve already stated to u he’s always listed as a LHW and kept off HW lists. I don’t think he would make a top ten or should others have hit harder and more affectively. But this was never the issue the issue was whether or not he was an elite puncher. Which u keep denying him. He was a more dangerous man then many that would labeled ahead of him.

 

He lost two of his last three fights. In no way shape or form should he have been listed as number 2. He would only go on to have one more fight. He was washed up and he also never knocked out anyone worth mentioning

 

MORE ISNT KEPT OFF ANY LIST THAT IS COMPLETE FICTION ON YOUR PART AS IS YOUR ASSERTION THAT BOXING HISTORIANS DONT REALISE MOORE FOUGHT LOADS OF FIGHTS AT HEAVYWEIGHT.

MOORE FOUGHT FOR THE HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE TWICE DO YOU THINK HISTORIANS ARE NOT AWARE OF THIS?

I'LL TRY ONE LAST TIME.
WAS MOORE AN ELITE PUNCHER AT HEAVYWEIGHT?
YES?

NO?
IF YOU DO NOT ANSWER THIS WE WILL ALL KNOW WHY.

I'VE PUT ALL THIS IN CAPS BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE TROUBLE DIGESTING POSTS.

 

VALDES STOPPED LONDON IN HIS LAST FIGHT LONDON WAS NO 8
VALDES STOPPED
NEUHAUS NO8
JACKSON NO5
McCMURTRY NO5
COCKELL NO6
HE ALSO STOPPED
SYS
RICHARDSON
ERSKINE
CARTER
SUMMERLIN
AGRAMONTE
SUMMERLIN
PARKER
THAT'S A MUCH BETTER KO RECORD OVER RING RANKED HEAVYWEIGHT OPPONENTS THAN MOORE MANAGED

 

No it’s not even close to as comparable as Moore’s scalps. Secondly I answer tbe question several times try reading the posts

 

YES?

NO?

 

Yes

 

Deserving?
Lavorante no4?
Cockell no 2
Were they deserving of their ranking?
BTW Moore didn't floor Lavorante, Ali did ,and he ko'd him too.
Valdes stopped 5 ranked heavyweights.

 

Valdez best stoppage was London and he was losing the fight and won off a cut. There is no comparison whatsoever in accomplishments in the KO department between Nino and Moore
Also Lavorante was carried from the ring on a stretcher

 

Rubbish!

"Big Nino Valdes, 213, of Cuba tagged Pat McMurtry, 188, of Tacoma, Wash., with the first knockout of his career at 2:39 of the first round Friday night in MSG. Referee Harry Kessler stopped the nationally televised and broadcast bout Friday night because of New York state's 3-knockdown provision. He ruled that McMurtry, who never had been on the canvas before, was officially floored 3 times. Everyone admitted that Kessler acted correctly in stopping the massacre when he did. Pat was in a floundering stupor at the time." -United Press International
McMurtry was no 5.

• 
  "Nino Valdes of Cuba demanded top rating among heavyweight contenders today because of his impressive victories over European champion Heinz Neuhaus, Sunday, and ex-world champion Ezzard Charles on August 11th. The kayo - at 2:10 of the 4th round - was witnessed by 19,000 fans here in the huge indoor Westfalen Halle. Most of the fans were bitterly disappointed when they saw Neuhaus suffer the first kayo in his career of 33 professional fights. They had figured him a potential world champion." -United Press
  • This victory elevated Valdes to #1 contender in Ring Magazine's heavyweight ratings.

Neuhaus was no 8.


Nino Valdes, an 11-5 underdog, overwhelmed the listless Hurricane Jackson, who showed only one brief flash of the fiery newcomer who beat Rex Layne, Clarence Henry and Dan Bucceroni in his exciting rise from prelim boy to No. 5 contender. In the 1st round, the Cuban thumped at Jackson's body with both hands. Shifting to the head when Jackson came out for the 2nd, Valdes drove his man half through the ropes with a solid right. Although the timekeeper counted to four, referee Al Berl ruled no knockdown. Another right sent Jackson to the floor and he was up at '2'. Another flurry drove Jackson to his knees for the count of '1'. The 3rd knockdown that ended the bout was disputed by many in the crowd as a push, but referee Berl ruled knockdown and the fight was over at 2:35 of the 2nd." -Associated Press

Post fight comment

• "He had nothing. Everybody expect us to go to body, we go to head in 2nd round. I knock out Marciano in 4 rounds." -Nino Valdes

• "Valdes rates the next shot at Marciano after the rematch with Charles that we hope to run in September." -Harry Markson, managing director of the IBC
• Jackson was number 5.

"Nino Valdes, the big Cuban who is making a habit of whipping British heavyweights, scored a TKO over Joe Erskine, Britain's champion, last night at 2:03 of the 1st round of a scheduled 10 rounder. Valdes finished Erskine almost before the capacity crowd of 18,000 had settled in it's seats at Earls Court Arena. A right to the chin sent Erskine down for a six count. As he got off the canvas, Valdes followed with a solid left hook. Erskine, who never had been beaten in 30 professional fights, was so groggy he did not know what was happening. He was defenseless and went down again when Valdes landed several more good punches. Referee Jack Hart then stopped the fight." -United Press

"Hulking Nino Valdes of Cuba barged back into the heavyweight picture Wednesday on the strength of a technical knockout over Don Cockell that he claims was "better than Rocky Marciano's." Valdez slashed Cockell's left eyebrow so badly that the stocky British champion was forced to retire at the end of the third round of their scheduled 10-round bout at White City Stadium Tuesday night. Marciano knocked out Cockell in the ninth round of their title bout May 16. It was an impressive comeback for Valdes, who had tumbled out of title contention when he lost successive bouts to Archie Moore and Bob Satterfield this year." - United Press
Cockell was number 2.


Nino Valdes - Cuban Heavyweight (youtube.com)

 

Nope! The London fight was even at the time of the stoppage. 3-3-1

 

"Simple statement of fact"

Actually a contrafactual statement revealing widespread ignorance of The Ring's monthly ratings and an obtuseness about the yearly ratings.

For example, here are The Ring's monthly ratings from the July, 1952, issue--ratings to May 18, 1952:

Champion--Jersey Joe Walcott
1--Ezzard Charles
2--Rocky Marciano
3--Roland LaStarza
4--Coley Wallace
5--Clarence Henry
6--Johnny Williams
7--Bob Dunlap
8--Cesar Brion
9--Bob Baker
10-Jimmy Bivins

Moore knocked out Dunlap on May 19, 1952 in six. Neither you nor I know most of The Ring's monthly ratings, so quoting them is simply quoting from ignorance.

As for the yearly ratings, Bivins was rated #7 in 1949, Dunlap #4 in 1952, and Baker #4 in 1954, so why claim they weren't rated?

Off The Boxing Register, Bivins in 1949, Dunlap in 1952, Baker in 1954, and Lavorante in 1962 were rated when Moore fought them.

"Lavorante was on his feet and rescued by the referee"

Like Schmeling and Carnera against Max Baer. Does this prove Baer couldn't punch at heavyweight? It is also strange to use the fight with Lavorante to question Moore's punching ability as Lavorante was carried from the ring on a stretcher.

*By the way, I already gave you the NBA ratings which are official ratings.

 

No. Valdes had fallen from the ratings after being KO'd by Charley Powell and beaten by Alonzo Johnson. He was not rated when Liston fought him.

But I don't think that is critical. He was rated #2 by The Ring in the 1958 ratings and had been rated for years. So Valdes was a good scalp for Liston.

*And don't argue with me about whether Valdes was rated because I watched the fight and remember The TV Guide writeup that week by Nat Fleischer in which Nat commented on Valdes no longer being in the top ten but Liston being a rising contender.

 

NBA ratings are no more official than the Ring's and a damnsight more biased that that time
uestion Moore's punching ability as Lavorante was carried from the ring on a stretcher.


Baker was not ranked he had lost to Henry in Dec 53 Satterfield in July 53 and he fought Moore in March 54.
I've already said Lavorante was ranked. Baer floored Schmeling and he dropped Carnera11 times.Moore did not drop Lavaorante who was indeed carried out on a stretcher and the ring Doctor diagnosed acute exhaustion I have the Ring write up for the fight so
,"dont argue with me" because I am special,lol

"Nino Valdes of Cuba demanded top rating among heavyweight contenders today because of his impressive victories over European champion Heinz Neuhaus, Sunday, and ex-world champion Ezzard Charles on August 11th. The kayo - at 2:10 of the 4th round - was witnessed by 19,000 fans here in the huge indoor Westfalen Halle. Most of the fans were bitterly disappointed when they saw Neuhaus suffer the first kayo in his career of 33 professional fights. They had figured him a potential world champion." -United Press

• This victory elevated Valdes to #1 contender in Ring Magazine's heavyweight ratings.

Valdes beat Neuhaus on the 15th of November1953.
He then beat
McBride
Parker
Sys ko
Jackson ko
Walls ko
Flood ko
Wood ko
He didn't lose to Moore until 2nd of May 1954. So tell me how he lost his rating especially as he stopped 3 Ranked men in that 8 fight winning spell?
Don't argue with you?
Why, who are you lol ? Apart from an insulting poster who thinks he knows everything?