The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

Lol, if I'm prattling what are you gaggle of rocks for brains doing?

I'm not the one who's biggest accomplishment each waking day is posting on a 43 page pissing contest on the very same boxing blog you're chastising me for being on, lol!

If I'm a prattler, so be it man. That's pretty lightweight stuff compared to what you dumb dumbs are doing.

 

I WAS ASKED FOR MY ELITE HEAVYWEIGHT PUNCHER LIST,I GAVE THEM.
I SAID,I DIDNT THINK MOORE HIT AS HARD AS FOSTER.NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT IS THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINION, NOR HAVE I TRIED AT ANY TIME TO SAY MINE IS THE OPINION EVERYONE SHOULD AGREE WITH.
YOU'VE BEEN SNIPING AT ME WITH PEDANTRY FOR WHAT SEEMS LIKE FOREVER .
MOORE SAID DURELLE HIT HIM HARDER THAN MARCIANO.,WHICH IMO MEANS HE WAS A VERY HARD LHY HITTER, WHAT YOU THINK IS IRRELEVANT TO ME .
YOU HAVE THE RING ISSUE OF THEIR TOP100 P4P PUNCHERS? WHOOP DE DOO ! SO HAVE I, SO WHAT!
THE RING PUTTING MOORE IN A LIST OF 100 P4P PUNCHERS MEANS EXACTLY NOTHING WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HEAVYWEIGHTS.

I DONT QUESTION MOORE'S POWER AT LIGHTHEAVYWEIGHT, I QUESTION IT AT HEAVYWEIGHT, DON'T TRY AND PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH ,I FIND I CAN TALK PERFECTLY WELL MYSELF.

 

Many past heavyweights were no bigger than todays light heavies and cruiserweights.

The guys Beterbiev are knocking out are just as big as many past champions so he's absolutely a huge puncher at heavyweight by pre-Liston standards.

I would say he's easily as proven as a heavyweight puncher as Dempsey for example since the big men Dempsey beat were so poor and most of his impressive kayoes were against guys similar in size to Beterbiev's opponents.

 

Blud opened more cans in the ring than at home to flavor his pasta I swear

 

Watch, and learn.

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Excellent observation and true. What many of Marciano’s detractors fail to realize is reach disadvantage meant nothing to this man’s style. He did exactly what you stated and used better head control on the inside to protect himself and his short arms actually did help him inside. What he also did while pressing his head against opponents chest is he would push them slightly off balance, this prevented them from planting their feet or being able to hit him w anything significant. He didn’t just throw a lot of punches to exhaust opponents he constantly pushed forward on the inside Leaning on opponents. He always fought at his range. His crouch and lean made it so opponents on the outside had to come closer to him to land anything. This allowed him to counter excellently from the outside and allowed him to move in unharmed effortlessly. One thing I always say about determining the winner of a fight pre fight is who controls the distance and tempo better (that’s y I knew Usyk would win over Fury and why Holyfield beat Tyson) whomever imposes the will over the other fighter generally wins and i never saw anyone control those two things against Marciano despite him fighting some of the best boxers to ever live.

 

Would it suit ur senses better to call Moore a KO artist at all weights as opposed to elite puncher? He ranks amongst the top 30% of the best HWs ever in power rankings and considering he ranked in top 10% in facing prime opposition (Boxing by the numbers) that speaks volumes about his abilities. Does that constitute being called an elite puncher? Maybe depends on ur criteria.

 

Just rewatched Marciano v Louis. Again Marciano goes in as the underdog and B side, taking the smaller purse and expected to be stepping stone for Louis on his comeback trail.

The first few rounds basically continue where the last fight left off, Rocky ducking his way in, head on chest, throwing his overhand shots with venom forcing Louis into retreating and giving up ground constantly.

Louis does adjust brilliantly in the middle rounds as he times his jab to perfection, stopping Rocky in his tracks and stepping away from the leaping hooks, but Rocky doesn't deter, he continues with the forward pressure and Louis finds himself unable to keep Rocky away from him. Eventually the big hooks do damage and Rocky knocks him out.

You can see though in the middle rounds how to time Rocky, he needs to slip his way in or close with a leaping hook, he can't jab his way inside. So if you can time him and stick a jab in his face, you can force him to constantly reset.

Doing that for 15 rounds though is another issue entirely.

 

I find the subject matter of the thread interesting and many of the posts insightful and informative. I find this thread fun and am enjoying myself.

What I can't understand is why anyone who isn't interested in the subject matter or the discussion reads through a 43 page thread? Or comments on it.

Even an animal doesn't do what it doesn't like doing if it can easily avoid doing it.

No one is making anyone read anything.

 

Anyone can disagree with me about anything in boxing. That is what debating is about.

 

To return to the subject of the thread--here are excerpts from Budd Shulberg's coverage of the Marciano-Moore fight in the Sports Illustrated issue of October 3, 1955:

From the description of round three--"We began to see the Marciano of the Walcott and Charles ordeals, a terrible figure immune to blood and pain, accepting hard blows casually, as if they were a trivial price to pay."

From the description of the 6th round--"The champion turned on a demonstration of continuous punching that had to be seen to be believed."

And from the conclusion--"The experts still fault Marciano for his lack of finesse, but right now we see him, a year or two hence, as the only American champion ever to retire without a defeat. The old-timers talk of Sullivan and Jeffries and Dempsey. We may have another such immortal slugger in our midst. Are we too close to his shortcomings to recognize his incomparable virtues?"

 

The insane levels of delusion contained above deserve some sort of medal. Thinking Marciano could be anything but a foil for Fury's entire arsenal is where you start. "I imagine"... Yes, that's the only way any sane viewer of the sport could see Marciano being competitive with Fury, even the washed up version we've seen of late, by using a lot of imagination. Then using a 20-fight loser in Sklor as a measuring stick for Fury, because Sklor is within 4 inches and 50 pounds of Fury... that's another beautiful step, also including your own pet peeve of using size as the only measure. Lastly, using a 6-3. 221 pound, 78" reach southpaw with impeccable balance as a measuring stick for a truncated midget who was 4 inches shorter, 40 pounds lighter, had 10" less reach, and couldn't move his feet correctly if you had Ginger Rodgers leading is a moment of profound hilarity.

That post should be pinned, framed and often referred to as a highwater mark for this board. I can not wait to see what another 40, or 60 or 100 pages on this thread will bring. It's yielding a Fort Knox in comedic gold already.

 

The quality of Marciano's competition varied like any great fighter's depending on the stage of his career.

Here is a piece written by Tommy Farr giving support to Don C**kell for his upcoming fight with Marciano. Farr also gets Don Mogard, who was one of Rocky's opponents to give his opinion on the upcoming fight. Sugar Ray Robinson and Tunney also give their opinions on the fight.

Tommy Farr: The Last Briton to Fight For the World Heavyweight Title sends Good Luck to Don C**kell

The Two big pictures on these pages are intended to cheer up Don C**kell.

They are about the only encouraging thing he'll see or hear about Rocky Marciano between now and the heavyweight championship of the world in San Francisco tomorrow night.

the pictures prove two points. The Rock can be blasted to the canvas. He can be shattered with a good straight left.

I know that Marciano is rough, tough and has a punch that's as fatal as forgetting to breathe.

But this Marciano hysteria goes a bit too far. Even my old ring "enemy" Joe Louis - and I can tell you from sore personal experience that he was tough enough in his time - has been caught up in it.

"Man, that Rocky's dynamite," says ex-world champion Joe.

"There's nothing can stand up against those punches except an act of God."

DON No. 1

Joe - and all the other shrieking their heads off about the ruthless Rocky - should go and have a quiet talk with an old sparring partner of mine. Canadian Don Mogard.

He occupied what is claimed to be one of the most dangerous spots on earth - the opposite ring corner to Marciano.

Mogard was still around at the end of the ten rounds with Marciano on May 23, 1949.

That was the second time in Marciano's professional career that he couldn't mark K.O. on his record.

Five months after facing Marciano, Mogard kept another date with destiny. He went eight rounds with C**kell in Leicester.

From my point of view, that qualifies Don Mogard as one of the few people entitled to sum up this big fight.

So I sought Don Mogard's opinion. These are his words:

"Marciano is not very hard to nail with left jabs and, if C**kell boxes him like he can, he could bring back the title."

"But Marciano doesn't waste time with any fancy stuff. He keeps throwing punches all the time. If Don gets tired and walks into one of his swings, he'll go out."

After Mogard there emerged Ted Lowry, A light-heavyweight Negro, and a customer named Red Applegate. Each went the distance of ten rounds with the Rock. Lowry did it twice.

I feel that in those far-off contests there must be a lesson in how to tame Marciano.

The answer lies in Don C**kell's one and only style of fighting.

A speeded-up straight left and move back to comparative safety from Marciano's well - intentioned rips and swings could well be Don's victory plan.

GET INSIDE!

If Rocky should do his punching off the wrong foot then Don must step inside with a couple of rib rattlers.

C**kell must not be tempted into finding out whether he can match Marciano's slam bang tactics.

If he does, then it will be curtains for Don.

If C**kell can pace his retreat from Marciano's battering ram punches when in the middle of the ring, Rocky will do a lot of missing.

Let Don slow down to a crawl from his early round exertions and Marciano could help Don to make up his mind whether he remains in the tough business of fisticuffs or retires to his Sussex farm.

Don must make his ring-cunning work double over-time.

C**kell is normally the uncompromising fighter who refuses to be flurried or kidded by make-believe feints and moves. I know. It was only in 1953 that I met him.

A DEMON

Rocky is the reverse. Immediately he squares up to a man who dares to dispute his right to the world's heavyweight championship he becomes a raging demon.

Marciano is only ready to compromise with a smile and a handshake when it's all over.

Rocky admits he's not the prettiest moving fighter ever. He dismisses his numerous ring mistakes with the words:

"Great fighting generals, like Napoleon, made one or two tactical errors. But their names went down in history as great."

Couple this reasoning with his philosophical ring approach when he says:

"My punch makes big men dwarfs and I love being world's heavyweight champion," and you have the insight of how much the blockbuster cherishes his title.

To relieve him of it is a man-size job.

SO COLD

The Rock is ice-cold. Latest news from the States is that if you told Marciano today that some-body had declared war between Britain and America, he would probably reply

"Tell me about it after the fight."

For many days he has cut himself from everything outside his training. He's not listened to the radio or television.

He hasn't seen the newspapers nor any of his personal mail - including good wishes of a multitude of fans and mixture of old friends.

THEIR VIEWS

Ex-World Champions have also been sounding-off for Rocky in a big way.

Sugar Ray Robinson said. "I hear Rocky's really training out there. Well, he should do.

"Yes, sir, that C**kell could do the same to The Rock as Randy Turpin did to me in London - The unexpected."

"I think Marciano's likely to find C**kell heavier going than his fans expect, but I figure the Rock will win."

Jack Dempsey, now a busy businessman, expressed his opinion to a television audience of millions.

He said "I always choose the champion to win and I'm staying with Rocky."

Gene Tunney pictured Rocky as a clever boxer, hard to shake.

"He will be firing broadsides from the start, and C**kell can't win by boxing him for fifteen round."

"C**kell must take calculated risk by shaking him off stride in the first."

"It won't go more than ten rounds."

With these opinions in mind it makes one think that Don would be well advised to seek the Californian Boxing Commission's permission to take a hammer and six-inch nails into the ring with him to be sure of keeping Marciano down for ten seconds.

Good luck to you. Don.

I sincerely hope that you can go one better than I did against Joe Louis in New York in 1937 and bring the title to Britain!

Don't forget, Marciano has only got tow arms, two legs, a body and a brain, just the same as you have.

YOU ARE AS GOOD AS HE IS UNTIL THE REFEREE SAY OTHERWISE!
https://imgur.com/nWBbXFY
https://imgur.com/1tJAZ7Z

 

You have plenty of examples though of guys with similar dimensions to Marciano enjoying success like Norris, Toney, Byrd, and Andy Ruiz. Many myself included feel Joshua is better than Fury and he lost to the 5'11 1/2-6'0 Ruiz.