The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

Just on being rated

In the NBA quarterly ratings released on June 28, 1956, Nino Valdes was not in the top ten.

On July 1, 1956, Eddie Machen KO'd Valdes in 8 rounds. This was the only time Valdes was stopped in an official bout between1945 and 1959. Valdes was rated from 1953 through 1955, and again in 1957 and 1958.

Nino Valdes was Nino Valdes whether someone put him in the top ten at this or that date or not. Downgrading this knockout by Machen on the basis of Valdes having temporarily fallen out of the top ten would be silly.

Machen deserves full credit for this impressive knockout.

Bob Satterfield KO'd Bob Baker on July 1, 1953. In the last quarterly ratings by the NBA, on April 21, 1953, Baker was rated #8 at heavyweight. So Satterfield KO'd the #8 heavyweight. Baker had apparently fallen out of the top ten when Moore stopped him in 1954. But Bob Baker was still Bob Baker and like Valdes in the middle of a several years run of being rated, including that very year.

Bob Baker's contender status in The Ring's annual rankings
1950--#5
1951--#9
1954--#4
1955--#2 (behind Moore)
1956--#8

Bob Baker's contender status in the NBA's last ratings each year:
1950--#9
1951--#9
1954--#4
1955--#1
1956--#2

Someone making a big fuss over whether Baker or Valdes or someone else is rated on any given day is an argument without any merit. A fighter does not become lesser because he temporarily falls out of the ratings.

Being green or washed up might be issues, but Baker and Valdes were in the middle of successful careers.

 

The whole who hits harder than who argument is largely irrelevant unless the fighters in question are knocking out the same guys. And they never do. Always The one people say hit harder can’t beat the guys the champion knocked out.

 

Baker was stopped by Satterfield and Moore, Nino Valdez beaten by Moore 2X and also lost badly to the 5"10 183 LB Satterfield in 1955 getting dropped for a 9 count

Charles flattened Satterfield in 2 in an explosive KO right after Satterfield KO'D Bob Baker in 1

Valdes also lost to 5'10 176 lb. Harold Johnson in 52 and Moore - Gilliam and Baker in 1953

many felt he lost to Archie McBride in 1954 despite getting the SD

Marciano fought the best in his era

 

It doesn't make any sense that a naturally 200 pound guy would starve himself down to middleweight rather than fight at the weight he was comfortable at. Moreover he clearly seems out of shape with excess fat in his heavyweight bouts. Arguing he was a natural light heavyweight might be plausible but claiming he was naturally bigger than rocky seems like an exaggeration. Marciano would also walk around at 200 plus.

Moreover Toney got hit plenty in his higher weight cruiserweight/heavyweight bouts. Why don't we do a fight by fight analysis of how often each guy got hit.

 

They'd say Louis was no longer The Brown Bomber.That he was still Brown ,but could no longer Bomb.
Beshore had a well deserved rep for durability he was only floored and kod twice in 54 fights!
Cuts were his bugaboo.
Savold was coming off a win over an unranked fighter who had been badly beaten and exposed as a Euro level boxer by Baksi who had left him nearly blind in his left eye.
Savold had much better wins such as
2 kos over Lem Franklin
2 kos over Lou Nova
But they had happened some years earlier.Savold was 1 fight away from having his licence withdrawn for his own safety!

You do talk a lot of nonsense!

 

That was Charles' opinion.

 

Wilder was ranked in the top 4, 3 fights ago where is he now?

 

Valdes also beat Charles no 1

Valdes beat the number 1 contender Charles and six other ranked contenders,so was he not one of the best of Marciano's era?
Yes Valdes lost to Johnson
So did
Charles
Peaks
Gilliam
Henry
Satterfield
Slade
Bethea
Many felt Marciano,lost to Lowry and Lastarza first time around.

 

What has this to do with Valdes or Baker.

Why are you comparing a guy slipping and washed up with men who would go on to be rated for years, rising to the #1 and #2 contender spots?

 

Because it demonstrates how quickly a fighters abilities can tail off.
Did
Cockell
Walcott
Charles
Lastarza
Layne
Mathews
Savold
Beshore
Go on to be rated for years?

 

Which as what to do with two men who went on to have winning streaks which took them near the top of the ratings?

Also, some might question whether Wilder had that much ability to begin with. A fair observation would be that Wilder has a very puffed up record. Baker and Valdes in contrast fought many of the top men of their time.

 

Who mentioned Machen?

 

I did.

Because Machen knocking out Valdes is to me relevant for my position.

 

Valdes lost in an elimination to Moore and then lost to Satterfield in 1955 so ruined his chance at a title fight Satterfield was 5'10 183 lbs and dropped Valdes for a 9 count