The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

"Layne (said) Louis hit him harder than Marciano"

Another off the wall quote with no citation. Marciano after all knocked Layne out. I don't think Louis did.

Walcott was talking on TV about two guys who both knocked him out.

How valuable is Walcott's quote? Not definitive, because he might have said something different at other times.

 

I have no idea but Rocky’s wins r def better than Holmes and Tyson’s wins. I don’t much stock in the bums those men beat. I’ll take top 5 wins against Walcott Archie Charles Louis Layne then anything those men have to offer. Amazing how no one talks about beating a half dead Ali and beating a long retired Holmes as a negative on those men’s careers. I’d say Marciano’s stats r impressive because he wasn’t facing crappy boxers like Galento or Shavers he faced extremely accurate boxer puncher types in Walcott and Moore and Louis. These men were exceptionally accurate and faster then most of the others opponents

 

lol the actual amount of times an opponent gets hit by opponents is useless when determining how good one’s defense is? May I ask why one would say such a thing?

 

Was in Rocky Marciano biography of a first son. A reporter asked one of Joe Louis sparring partners who was now in Rocky’s camp to compare the two fighters
His quote “Louis is faster with a barrage of punches,” he said “but Rocky hurts more with one punch than Joe did with four. Rocky hurts you every time he connects.” Unnamed fighter

 

Here is a quote from Archie Moore on Espn.com
--------------------------------

Archie Moore-----"After a fight with Marciano, you felt like someone had been beating you all over the body with a blackjack or hitting you with rocks."

And a longer quote from Archie Moore Revisited by Thomas Hauser

"Rocky didn't know enough boxing to know what a feint was. He never tried to outguess you. He just kept trying to knock your brains out. If he missed one punch he just threw another. Of all the guys I fought, Marciano hit me harder than everyone else combined. I felt like someone was beating all over my body with a blackjack or hitting me with rocks."

*I am not implying that any other quotes from Moore are inaccurate. Only that like most folks Moore might have said different things at different times.

 

Quality of punches.
Quality of opposition.
eg If Marciano got hit ten times in the available footage of fights would that not be cancelled out if he got hit 20 times in the fights that are not available to view?

How many fights of the 49 Marciano had are their available to view?
How many of them are complete fights?
Marciano retired in his prime at 32,what allowance have you made for the fighters that were still fighting long past their best?
eg
Lewis.
Liston.
Ali.
etc
Perhaps you can now see your sarcasm is misplaced?

 

The problem with quotes,

let's say a man is quoted:

"I love that woman."

"That woman is an utter b___h."

They both could be true quotes. The first is from the wedding night. The second right after the divorce.

 

"I tell them Marciano hit me the hardest because that's what they want to hear,but it isn't true." Archie Moore

 

It all averages out in the long run. I believe they used 9 of his 12 recorded fights. Most fighters don’t have their coming up fights recorded to use anyway. 9 seems a decent number to get a decent idea of one’s abilities. To dismiss actual film and results of said fights would be an odd take. A slight grain of salt in that we didn’t get old Marciano like u had old Louis or old Ali and Holmes (we can look at the numbers of the latter two in prime and Marciano’s defensive numbers still hold well and better) . I don’t think if Marciano’s opponents were 6”2 and slower it would have made a difference. But to each their own

 

Give me a break.

Tyson:
Holmes
Spinks
Tucker
Thomas
Ruddock

I would take and every one of those over any opponent of Marciano's in the shape that they faced him. And it's not even close. A bit more prime Ezz would have stood a chance of going the distance but not the fighter Marciano faced, who was sliding quickly downhill in a division he didn't really belong.

 

Moore
Lastarza
Cockell
Charles
Layne
Said they were hit harder by others.
Walcott said he was a hit harder by Marciano.
"You pays your money --------"

 

It's useless information because it is limited and flawed. It's like declaring the winner of a fight on the basis of punch stats!

 

For me the bottom line is all those men were stopped by Marciano. Marciano hit all those men hard enough.

Taking them one at a time:

Moore--reasonable that he was hit harder by Charles.

Charles--was hit harder by Walcott.

Cockell--not one of Marciano's best efforts. Reasonable that someone along the way hit him harder.

LaStarza--reasonable that he was hit harder by Mederos.

Layne--This is a hard sell as Marciano pole-axed him.

What this might prove is that it is difficult to hit fighters who have had long careers facing top punchers harder in all cases than anyone else ever hit them.

 

Often punch stars tell the story of the winner.

 

Louis boxed Layne in Dec 1949 and Jan 1950,I don't think he stopped him in either bout.