How would you change my top 5 heavyweights

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024.


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  1. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There is no way Holmes can be #3. Sorry to all his fans...its not on the table.

    How the hell is Holmes better than Forman, for example?

    Forman's best win is Frazier and second best Norton. Holmes best win is a a lesser, nearly 35 year old version of Norton. Foreman has at least two wins better than anything Larry is sporting.

    Holmes second best win is Tim Witherspoon. Let's put this in perspective. Witherspoon's reputation is built on wins over Page, Tubbs, Bruno and Bonecrusher- good but not stellar. I like Foreman's win over Moorer better, who can hang his hat on beating prime Holy.

    Holmes third and arguably forth best are the wins over an aging Shavers. Foreman's win over Lyle is MANFESTLY better, as Lyle beat Shavers and was a more important contender.

    The Mercer fight? Again, at this time Foreman was lineal champion again against Moorer, but if you need another name to plug in here, Foreman has a second win against Frazier,

    Cooney is generally considered Holme's best...Forman also beat Cooney, albeit a lesser version, so if you want to get to their fifth or sixth best fight, we can give Holmes a point if you like.

    I mean, really, Holmes doesn't stack up against Foreman, never mind, Louis, Frazier, and a few other guys.

    Holmes #3? Not on this planet. Out of the question. The wins aren't there. Maybe in some Marvel Universe alternative reality, or something.
     
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    #16
    ShovelHook likes this.
  2. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Weaver, Cooney, Cobb, Berbick, Witherspoon, Williams, Mercer, Spinks, Norton, ranked. Even Smith and Bey were ranked after Holmes beat them. 19 title defenses, it's a weak era but he beat plenty of ranked fighters. It's like Wlad

    Pure Resume wise without other factors, nobody is on the level of Ali, Lewis, and Joe Louis. Usyk shouldn't be top 5 by names in his record, but I was generous because he's the man right now and achieved everything
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024
    #17
  3. Unique Way

    Unique Way Active Member Full Member

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    1a - Ali
    1b - Joe Louis
    3 - Larry Holmes
    4 - George Foreman
    5 - Rocky Marciano. H2H though Liston, Lewis, Wlad, Vitali, Bowe, Tyson and some others would destroy him. Liston would likely demolish him in round or two
     
    Unique Way, Jun 8, 2024
    Unique Way, Jun 8, 2024
    #18
  4. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Outside of Witherspoon and Norton none of those guys are historically impressive.

    And again, Foreman did better, so...
     
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    #19
  5. kriszhao

    kriszhao Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1. Ali
    2.Lewis
    3.Wlad.
    4.Foreman
    5.Louis
     
    kriszhao, Jun 8, 2024
    kriszhao, Jun 8, 2024
    #20
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  6. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Still decent contenders, no worse than the contenders today. Holmes was consistent and defended the belt about 20 times, and I think the Young fight points to who would win, but yes, I agree Foreman does have a better resume so you can rank him higher, It's all subjective though
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024
    #21
  7. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Let's try it a third time...

    There is no rational for having Holmes at three when you can take another champion (Foreman in my demonstration), put Holmes' best wins side by side, and Holmes come up a distant second.

    None whatsoever.
     
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    #22
  8. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    There's a younger Norton and Frazier, Ron Lyle. A loss to young. That's the 70s resume. 90s has Moorer and Savarese. Briggs is a shout. Impressive due to context

    But with more context that actually isn't that much better knowing Holmes era just didn't have those guys. Holmes was just 80s Klitschko by dominance in a weak era. That's not their fault. Prime Holmes on his night was on Alis level, that's my opinion and the opinion of many others. You can go ahead and compare side by side, it's all subjective.
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024
    #23
  9. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So you admit that he doesn't have the victories...what then is the ranking based on, faith? Your own perception.
     
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    #24
  10. Babality

    Babality KTFO!!!!!!! Full Member

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    Usyk that high is an insult to many heavyweights. Just too short a resume.

    Wlad also shouldn't be so high. He's too vulnerable and his opposition was pretty lacking.
     
    Babality, Jun 8, 2024
    Babality, Jun 8, 2024
    #25
    senpai likes this.
  11. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Because it was literally impossible, strange you ignore this. Where's the Fraizers, Bowes, and Listons. They didn't exist in the era. It was weak, but that wasn't his fault. Holmes was a boxing master, technically proficient.

    Doesnt change the fact he was the man and defended his title 20 times and beat several ranked fighters/mandatories. I put in more than wins alone knowing the context of the era. If u don't rate Holmes that's fine thats your opinion.
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jun 8, 2024
    #26
  12. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But...

    A) So your ranking is based on assumption

    B) He didn't look great against the guys he had. Foreman, for example again, did much better against a much better version of Norton.

    C) He didn't fight most of the best that were there. He openly ducked Page, and bragged about how he wouldn't fight Thomas.

    So again, where is the evidence?
     
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    catchwtboxing, Jun 8, 2024
    #27
  13. senpai

    senpai Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nobody in 21th century deserves to be on the top 5 of that list of HWs.
     
    senpai, Jun 9, 2024
    senpai, Jun 9, 2024
    #28
    MarkusFlorez99 likes this.
  14. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Our pope is the Holy Spirit Full Member

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    1) Ali
    2) Louis
    3) Lewis
    4) Holmes
    5) Marciano
     
    ikrasevic, Jun 9, 2024
    ikrasevic, Jun 9, 2024
    #29
    senpai and MarkusFlorez99 like this.
  15. CroBox29

    CroBox29 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk
    Ali
    Holmes
    Lewis
    Holyfield
     
    CroBox29, Jun 9, 2024
    CroBox29, Jun 9, 2024
    #30
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