Greater Heavyweight - HOLMES or LEWIS ?

Vitali was not an undisputed champion, nor was anyone else for a quarter of a century.
Vitali was not a lineal champion, as Lewis retired as a lineal champion; the line is disconnected.
Vitali was the WBC champion, and even mentions his reign with 9 (nine) title defenses.
https://boxrec.com/en/title/6/Heavyweight
Holmes was also never the undisputed champion (Lewis was).

 

Klitschko was never the guy in the division. Lewis did no such thing in beating him.

Holmes was certainly the Champ. ‘Undisputed’ doesn’t mean a whole lot when you’re the lineal Champion.

 

Lewis for me, I just can't think of any valid criticisms from his career. It was nigh on perfect.

Holmes was a long dominant champion. Hindsight chastises him for not unifying, but he was recognised as the champion of the division and in reality the WBA merry go round should have been chastised for not facing him.

Being stripped for not facing Greg Page is a low point. He wanted more money, and he was getting on in years, but the end if his reign was poor.

He openly says he wanted to make money and quick, and just followed to paycheck, so fair play to him, but I don't believe he was greater than Lewis, or rather should I say I do believe Lewis surpassed Holmes.

 

I don't understand this logic. As if it is a small thing to beat Vitali, who has 2 (two) defeats in his career. During both defeats, he was better in terms of points, but bad luck happened to him.

According to that logic, the wins of Brewster, Sanders and Puritty are worth more than Lewis' win over Vitali because they defeated someone who will become "the guy" in the division.
I don't get it... I just don't get it.

 

Well you said Lewis beat the guy who became the Champion of the next generation. That’s just objectively false. Nothing complicated about it.

 

OK. My mistake. I didn't say it in enough detail, but now I will:
In the last fight of his career, Lewis defeated the WBC champion of the NEXT generation; no one has such an example, neither Ali nor Louis.

 

Okay, well if that means a lot to you, fair enough. I’ve never had much time for Klitschko as a fighter & find him highly oversold regardless.

 

It's nice to finally understand each other, and you can't do that with everyone here.
Consider this a compliment.

 

I think you'll upset a few people with that post, but there's some truth in there.

 

None in their primes. Holyfield and Tyson were both well past it and Ali was beyond shot. The only ATG that Lewis beat was Vitali who is good enough to be a top 25 all time guy at heavy and Holmes beat Norton who is also good enough to be 25.

 

That's what I said too.

Norton is considered ATG by some and not ATG by some.
As far as I can tell, most people don't consider it ATG.
Now which ATG place who will quote whom comes down to "in my book" - which is fine; everyone has the right to their own opinion (at least it is theoretically so).

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IMHO Norton needed only one more win over one of: Holmes, Ali, Frazier or Foreman to be ATG.
P.S. and it is very possible that Norton won another win there in the third fight against Ali, but..

 

Lyle makes it over Norton? I don't think so. Even Mercer, good as he was, didn't have a win like Norton's over Ali's.

 

I agree with you, but I did not participate in making the list.

 

Gotta go with the guy who didn’t get KO’d by a couple of journeymen in marking-time defenses.

Holmes is the greater of the two.

Prime for prime, H2H, I might favor Lennox but it would be damned interesting.

Larry didn’t lose until he was worn out at the tail end of his (first) career and had a dad bod. Lennox lost when he was still in his physical prime. I rate the guys he lost to in the neighborhood of Bonecrusher Smith and David Bey, both of whom Larry stopped while past his prime — heck, he came close to edging McCall while in his 40s right after McCall smoked Lennox in two.

 

It would be interesting insofar as difficult to predict who would win…Holmes couldn’t make a gun fight exciting, & Lewis usually chose dull as a fight strategy.

& Holmes always had a dad bod.