Is Matthew Saad Muhammad an All Time Great ?

Exactly..

To me there are layers of greatness in every level of boxing (or not so greatness)

A guy like Johnny Torres who had a record of about .500 percentage wise, when he fought Boom Boom Mancini in one of the mismatches of 1983, was obviously better than a guy who went 0-14...(Radames Checo, who was fed to Josue Marquez, a ranked world title challenger in 1974ish, and to Esteban DeJesus, Claude Noel and Miguel Montilla)

In Saad Muhammad's case and Wilfredo Gomez for example, i guess we could say they were middle-of-the field all time great, maybe among the top 100. Obviously not in Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson or Roberto Duran's level, but a few layers under them...but also a few layers above Roger Mayweather, Mario D' Agata and Raul Raton Macias, for example)

 

Yes without doubt

 

He is nt an all time great but he was , in his prime, a monster and a very dangerous match up for most.

 

My heart says yes, but my brain doesn't quite see him in the top 10.

I suspect guys like Marvin Johnson were in that top 10 ahead of him.

Love him.

 

Its a shame Marvin Johnson is not in the Hall of Fame.

I loved them both and respect them both.

 

Saad is an ATG. Lower rung perhaps but he's there.

 

That’s the thing I think people are going more with their heart instead of their head on this question.

 

I think so because of his power and heart. And he beat credible opponents.

 

What more is there to a fight than making it a masterpiece? Definitely an all timer.

 

No doubt that he would be if he was fighting today.

 

I think he had 2 careers, before and after Qawi ruined him. Before Qawi he definitely went through LHW like a hot katana blade. Then Qawi beat him up basically 2x in a row and I don't think he ever won back to back fights ever again. His style wasn't really meant to last or be around as an elder statesman

He's a HOF'er definitely, him being in New York is warranted. I'd say he's an ATG at LHW (you have to be to put together 10 or so defenses) but a lower tier one.

I think if pre Qawi MSM existed today, he'd have all 4 belts.

 

That's the bottom line his results

Beat future champions Mate Parlov and Marvin Camel

Got a draw and disputed decision losses to them in rematches in their back yards. Most thought he won

Disputed decision loss to future champion Eddie Gregory

Changed his style from primarily stand up boxer to stalking slugger after the disputed

decision losses. Instead of playing the victim, decided to put his boxing fate into his own

hands - as he had done outside the ring since being abandoned as a child on the streets of

Philadelphia.

Stopped Marvin Johnson, who would go on to stop WBC Champion Mate Parlov

Stopped Richie Kates who had very recently given Victor Galindez two very tough fights

Stopped Yaqui Lopez, who was coming off two close decision losses to Victor Galindez and had stopped Mike Rossman

Somehow Johnson and Rossman got title shots before Saad

After all this, Saad still is not the number one contender of either the WBA or WBC

To his credit, Marvin Johnson gives the Number 2 contender Franklin a title shot because he wants to avenge the first fight

Saad stops him again this time in front of Johnson's stunned home fans in Indianapolis

Marvin Johnson goes on to dethrone WBA champ Galindez just six months later

As Pat Putnam wrote in the SI article he penned covering Saad's first defense against former champion John Conteh,

"Saad won a title in about as hard a way as possible, in a division suddenly chock full of good fighters."

Admittadly the first Conteh fight was very tough, with Conteh outboxing Saad for stretches.

But Saad was the stronger, fresher man in the Championship rounds back when fifteen

round championship fights were still the norm

Mopped up what was left of Conteh in the rematch

Incredible fight of the year stoppage win over Lopez in a rematch .showing almost superhuman recuperative powers and stamina.

KOd undefeated Lottie Mwale with a highlight reel left uppercut. The ref could have counted to 100 and Mwale would have still been on the canvas

Picked the lock and lowered the boom on former amateur champion Vonzel Johnson

Stopped Murray Sutherland

Stopped Jerry Martin

Eight successful defenses, seven by stoppage. Defended every three or four months, an active champion.

Every title fight he engaged in was broadcast on American National Television, a testament to the excitement he brought

Losses to fellow Hall of Famer Dwight Braxton followed but because of his overall body of work, many rate Saad higher than Braxton overall.

note: The guy who rated Marvin Johnson ahead of Matthew Saad Muhammad in a previous post in this thread has no clue what he's

saying.. Same for the guy who rated Saad ahead of Michael Spinks

 

A 3 time champion!

 

I don't see how he could be an ATG in anyway.. Top fighter and only the top guys could beat him, but does that mean he is the best.