Prime George Foreman vs Zhang

Maybe you need to watch the footage pal.

 

I haven't seen the bone "structure/density" argument for GF for awhile. It'll be back, now they are concentrating on the "weight cut" for why GF wasn't 6-3 and over 300 pounds of dense muscle. In the mind of his Fan Club on this message board he is the Incredible Hulk.

Anyway, I'm beginning to understand the weight principles of this board. If a fighter is matched with GF or Marciano, the fighter being bigger has no bearing (it could even be a detriment) on the result of the fight, but if GF or RM out weigh the opponent by 1 ounce, the opponent is too small to compete with them.

 

We were talking about Frazier Foreman and Fury Usyk. If you want to bring up other versions that's fine but don't try to re-frame the argument as though I'm being sneaky.

My point being that Zhang is bigger by a fair bit.

Zhang never got a chance to fight an endless series of ants and garden pests like Ted Gullick.

He's far more technical, looks for the counter and does a great deal with a small amount of work. His timing is great for such an old fighter and he can exploit the gaps in a boxers defence with more ease than should be possible for such a behemoth.

Foreman's looping punches are not faster than Zhang's counters. Get glasses.

Take 20lb off of Foreman and watch Chuvalo beat him.

Ali said that people hit him so hard that his kinfolk in Africa were shaken. As that is demonstrably false, he has disqualified himself from being an objective commenter. Fair, no?

OK champ

 

Well it's still a bizarre argument to use only 1 fight and then emphatically state one guy is heavier than another. Idk why you insist on making things complicated. Usyk is not heavier than Foreman lol.

Fatter by a fair bit. And it's not saving him from being KOd, nor will the extra fat somehow neutralize Foreman's long guard framing/parrying game.

He got a chance to fight Parker and Hrgovic and lost (and his 30 pounds of fat didn't help him win). Even if he won, he'd still have an inferior resume to 70's Foreman. Let me know when Zheng beats anyone as good as Norton, let alone Frazier.

If 200 pound Ted Gullick is a "garden pest" or an "ant" compared to Zheng, than what is the 214 Wilder? A mouse? Wilder is Zheng's best win and he had 68 kbs over him...!

So in other words, he has less dimensions than Foreman but is pretty good at those limited options. Foreman has more dimensions and is good at all of them.

Zheng is a decent southpaw with decent skill but he doesn't have some mind boggling technique/skill compared to Foreman. The biggest difference is if Zheng had less power, he'd have like 3 more losses. If Foreman had less power, he'd still be a very effective boxer using techniques and strategies he got from legends like Sandy Saddler and Archie Moore.

And yet Foreman beat boxers way faster than Zheng, and Zheng has lost to boxers even slower than those boxers.

Chuvalo lost to guys even smaller and cruder than Foreman like Oscar Bonavaena. Now you sound like an idiot.

My God you're a nerd.

Concession accepted

You do not want smoke with someone who literally got paid to write speeches. If you want to show me whatever you think is a decent read, we can compare and I will destroy you.

 

No, I really don't.

Zhang is a nobody. 41 years old, fat, no gas tank and has never won anything as a professional.

It's actually an insult to mention his name in the same conversation as George Foreman. And you embarrass yourself by continuing to do so.

 

Tbh, at 218 lbs, I always felt that the HUGE 3 1/2 lbs weight advantage that 21 yo Foreman held over 214 1/2 lbs Chuvalo, made ALL the difference.

Aside from the demonstration of Foreman’s clearly superior boxing skills in general, notably superior and weight transcendent strength and power, AND a jab that was already being compared to that of Joe Louis, - it was STILL the 3 1/2 lbs weight pull in Foreman’s favour that was the MAIN takeaway and the single attribute that really did equate to Chuvalo’s demise.

And, so what if the still developing Foreman brutally dominated, manhandled and stopped the iron chinned and notably strong (in his own right) Chuvalo in < 3 rounds? BIG DEAL.

Time to take off those nostalgic, rose tinted glasses and replace them with the polarised, Big Bang shades!

 

You missed the part where I pointed out he was more than willing to fight guys like Joe Frazier--an undefeated gold medalist and undisputed champion who was terrorizing the division and who had beaten Ali. Or Ron Lyle, a feared gang member who survived being stabbed and did time in prison. Lyle had only literally just got off the floor to take out fearsome puncher Earnie Shavers and Foreman's camp thought "yeah, that guy should make for a good tune up". Foreman won fight of the year by knocking out Lyle. That was about as even as a fight as you could get, 2 guys with similar heights and weights with rough demeanors. Mugger vs Gangbanger. And Foreman beat him after coming off a loss with ring rust. He showed more courage in that fight than Zheng ever did. A guy who doesn't like challenges or who hates to face stiff opposition would not set one foot in the ring with either of them.

Really, you should leave the thinking and psychoanalyzing to posters who understand the sport. I'm sure you have some legendary boxers to train with your infinite wisdom about how Wilder and Fury are the best h2h fighters in history and how all you need to be is tall and athletic to be successful.

 

It was the 5th Ward.

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Evidently Foreman's extra 3.5 lbs was simply unfair and George "Puny" Chuvalo was hopelessly outmatched. Foreman spent his whole career bullying his "garden ant" sized opponents and was a bully with no backbone who crumbled if anyone stood up to him.

But Zheng's 68 lbs over Wilder (Zheng's best win by far) was fair and square. Wilder just needed to suck it up and find a way to win. Zheng's victory had nothing to do with his size, he's simply brilliant.

 

Commonly referred to as arc welding goggles (Shade 13).

 

Methinks that Foreman's 'long guard parry' is going to get him KOd especially considering Zhang's reach advantage over Little George. Or have we reached the stage where Foreman is bigger than Zhang and Usyk put together? Man I love how FORTEman magically grows in size in every hypothetical. Let me guess: he takes a drink from a slurpee before the fight and becomes 300 lb and 7 feet after rehydrating?

Parker and Hrgovic are not only substantially larger than Little George but also fought a 40 year old version of Zhang and barely scraped by. Parker and Hrgovic would have given little Foreman all he could handle, take it to the bank. Little George would have been huffing and puffing away and wondering why his physical approach wasn't working on somebody physically larger than him.

Are you making the case that a large weight advantage counts? Oh, my. That can't be right, can it? Are you sure?

Nah I disagree. If Foreman had no power he'd have lost to a bunch of guys including Frazier. Ali wouldn't have had to rope a dope him (yeah gogo George boxing skills ) him and would have straight up whupped him. Foreman's approach worked precisely because he was bigger and stronger. Zhang would still be able to counterpunch and feed people straights down the pipe. He'd not be as effective but he'd be better than no-power Foreman trying to slug with guys. But, let's be honest, both these guys depend on a power and size advantage.

The difference is the guys that beat Zhang are (a) bigger than Foreman and (b) beat an old version of Zhang. The difference that the way faster boxers that Foreman beat were midgets compared to Zhang. Edit: just looked at Parker/Zhang again. Parker is WAY faster than Foreman. His 1-2s are blistering compared to Foreman's slow ass looping punches.

Boxing triangle theory, is it? We have reached peak forum

But a correct nerd. Ali often exaggerated and talked shyte. But if he's telling the gospel truth can we also take the bit where he said that Foreman had no power as truth? Please don't explode, Classic.

cool story bro

LMFAO I hope they got a refund.

 

cry harder son

 

Exactly.

Size advantage was clearly not in play when Zhang banged a well worn Wilder who, to make matters worse, always looks emaciated relative to his own 6’ 7” frame.

And, at 282 3/4, while a heavier Zhang might’ve had some extra weight behind his shots, the trade off was a sacrifice in output - just 16 punches thrown per round.

If one wants a cardio trained, busier Zhang, that’s a lighter Zhang (260 lbs to 265 lbs) whose power might likely be that much less than when he’s tipping the scales between 283 lbs and 291 lbs.

A cardio trained/lighter Big Bang, while busier, isn’t going to bang as hard as a 280 lb to 291 lbs, built for comfort, Zhang.

Basically, Zhang can’t have his Dim Sims and eat them too, if you know what I mean.