The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

Harry Matthews is being seriously underrated. If Rocky wasn't a versatile fighter Matthews most likely would've beaten him. Matthews also underestimated Rocky, since he clearly wasn't expecting Rocky to have such an effective left hook.

Here is a piece with a fight manager analyzing Marciano's style prior to the first Walcott fight. In this specific article he doesn't reveal his identity, but in followup articles If I remember correctly he turned out to be Bobby Gleason, who definitely knew his boxing. He also gives his take on where Matthews went wrong in his fight with Marciano.

He said he would be glad to analyze Rocky Marciano the fighting man, only he would be just as pleased if you didn't mention his name because he ran another fighter himself. Sure, he hoped to get a shot at The Rock, and why give away any trade secrets?

"Well first off," he said, "a lot of you guys writing sports have been underestimating Marciano from the very first. As a boxer, that is."

"He can blow your head off as a puncher, but for his style, and he is tailored for it, Rocky isn't bad at all. You ever noticed his feet? No, I bet not.

"Rocky has those feet moving all the time. He's already to take off at you in a split second, and I've known lots of so-called 'fancy' fighters who didn't move as fast as he does when he decides to go.

"He explodes."

"You gotta remember this one thing about Marciano:

He has the shortest reach of any heavyweight I can remember since Tony Galento. You look it up, and I bet you find there never was a heavyweight champion with only a 67-inch reach like his."

If Galento Had a Right Hand...

"Naturally,' this veteran fight man went on, "with such a short reach and short body, Marciano's people would have been nuts to try to make a fancy boy out of him.

"A big reach isn't so important as it sounds, but it can be an awful pocketful of lead to a fighter if he hasn't got it and don't know how to overcome the disadvantage."

"Never underestimate these fighters that are built like a brick scooter garage, and come at you, clubbing. They're dynamite."

"To this day, nobody but Joe Louis ever realized what a tight spot Tony Galento had him in back there in '39. See the fight? No. Well you missed something. Louis lost the first round on points - to Galento the guy everybody was laughing at!

"If Galento had a right hand, like Marciano, he had Joe cold in the third round. But Tony had nothin' but his left ... just a beer barrel of a guy, with nothing but a left hand.

"He was a 'telegrapher', Tony was, but he fought out of a crouch that night, like Rocky does, and, suddenly - wham! He leaped in and he hit Joe with that left hook. Everybody saw it coming. But it still got home. Then he pawed Joe in the stomach with a right. Well, if he had Marciano's right hand he had the fight won with that punch."

"And there was Joe down on his knees and everybody going nuts."

"Of course. Joe got up and in the fourth round he bashed Galento to pieces."

"The point is, he hadn't ever ought to gotten up - if Galento had a right hand. He never would have gotten up against Marciano, and that was Joe Louis of 13 years ago, and I believe that."

Next Time, Watch His Feet

"The point I'm making is, those short-armed punchers ain't good for anybody, even themselves, when they try to be fancy. They aren't built for it. Put 'em into a crouch, keeping an opponent 'honest' with a round-house right hand, and up on their toes, moving in."

"That's what they've done with Marciano. He keeps you with your hair standing up on end with those wild right hand punches and, except for the night Savold was grabbing him and throwing him off, he has those feet moving under him real good. Nice balance. He comes off his marks like that guy Dillard. Next time you watch his feet.

"Another thing, they've shortened up Rocky's punches, and that makes pack in 10,000 meter run. He won on the target against Matthews like I never seen him before."

"Joe Walcott can move good for an old boy, but I don't think he can run fast enough, long enough, to keep away from Rocky. That's what I think. We'll see."

"Now, I think Matthews had the right idea for beating Rocky - slipping under the right swing and coming in behind a left hook. But he made one mistake. No, he made two. The second was not appreciating how fast that sonofagun Rocky can leap at you. He was down Matthews' throat before Harry knew what it was all about."

"I have a good boy. We're having trouble getting him fights, but we know some day they gotta give us Marciano, which is why I study this so closely."

"You can beat Rocky if you have a 'hot' punch. And if you can get there first with it. It won't be easy."
https://imgur.com/yaBCwrF

 

Point you had no point! Schmeling was a world class fighter with world class wins one of which stands comparison with Frazier's over Ali.Schmeling got beat by 3 guys early in his career when he was a light heavy so what! The guys you keep promoting got beat in their primes. YOU are the one totally missing the point and making pedantic posts that add nothing to the thread.
It isn't about listing negatives it's about pointing out losses when these men were in their primes,not young fellas learning the game.
You post just to post don't you.
You said Sharkey was slipping, asked to state how you could ascertain that you wrote a load of piffle

 

Murphy and Nardico were light heavyweights.
Now go and look at Mathews resume and check how many were heavyweights? What middleweights Mathews beat has no bearing on his status as a HEAVYWEIGHT and the fact that you feel it necessary to keep mentioning his victories over MIDDLEWEIGHTS AND LIGHTHEAVYWEIGHTS just emphasizes his lack of quality wins over HEAVYWEIGHTS. I didn't call Mathews a paper tiger a biographer of Marciano did, presumably he did his research and noted what the prevailing opinion of him was at the time. 104 fights ,10 against HEAVYWEIGHTS.

Mathews heavyweight wins.
Art Henri14-21-1 had won 1 of his last 8.
Maynard Jones13-8-2 ko'd in 3 of his last 5 fights.
George Kaplan had lost his last 4 and been kod in2 rds by Keene Simmons7-8-1 Marciano;s sparring partner. He was having his last fight.
Rex Layne A good win ,on paper.3 months earlier Layne had been floored 3 times and lost to 12-2-1 Willie James. Marciano had belted the punch resistance out of Layne and he was just beating nobodies and losing to the good men. NB The Charles fight deserves an * next to it.
Jack Nelson Had won 1 of his last7 fights.
Havey Breshears Nelson had ko'd him in1 round .
Dave Whitlock a light heavy had lost last 6 last 4 by ko.
Freddie Beshore At the end of the trail he and Mathews split 3 fights a win each and a draw Mathews beat Beshore on cuts which he was always prone to
Young Harry Wills 21-20-6 had won 2 of his last 8.
Grant Butcher x2 17-7-2 had won2 of his last 4 would have 3 more win over a debutee lost the next 2 and retire.
One good win ,over Layne.
That's Harry's resume at HEAVYWEIGHT. Are you impressed?
ps If he was as good as you and your mates keep insisting how come he didn't fight some live names?
Why aren't any of the following on his resume?
Lastarza
Walls
Brion
Neuhaus
Gardner
Williams
Baker
Henry
Walcott
Satterfield
Bucceroni
Oma
Baksi
Louis
Wallace
Dunlap
Maxim
Moore
Johnson

 

You can't blame Marciano yeah you can pick the record apart and criticize his rough straight forward style along with his small size, but he fought all who was there. His small size should also prop him up the ranks actually. He's top 10

 

Nobody is blaming Marciano,the thread is about the quality of his opponents.

 

Well yeah point is he couldn't do anything that's who was around like many have already said to the detractors. I also think the supposed asterisks are a bit overblown but understandable. H2H is one thing but greatness wise he's top 10 to me

 

He is in many top tens,he just misses mine, but I have him in front of Frazier at no 11.

 

you can beat the “Moore was not prime” “legs gone” to ad nauseam.

However the facts remain…leading up to the Marciano fight in 1955…Moore went 45-1. He recorded dominant wins over top ranked heavyweight contenders like Clarence Henry, Bob Baker, and Nino Valdes. Some of these men held considerable size strength power and youth advantages over Moore. He also recorded a thrilling knockout victory over Harold Johnson, who was 25 years old and would become a future hall of fame champion. His victory over # 1 Nino Valdes was for a world title eliminator, and a shot against Marciano.

So please…the next time you bring up the ancient decrepit mummified version of 1955 Archie Moore..please give an impartial version rather than your revised narrative

 

I have a question, who did Archie Moore beat prior to meeting Marciano? Did he beat Valdes and Baker? That’s right, he did, even at the ripe age of 40.

 

lol

he beat several top contenders who were far younger than him and were supposed to beat him so there’s that

 

lol

 

so you’re punishing Marciano for fighters that retired after he beat them? I don’t care about that, I care about who those fighters beat before they fought Marciano. For example, Archie Moore literally cleared out the contender playing field before he fought Marciano. That should make his win over Moore even better. Joe Louis, who definitely was passed his prime, beat multiple contenders before he bought Marciano. That should be praised instead of shot down. The way I see it is simple, if Joe Louis was so far past his prime, how come those other heavyweight contenders couldn’t stop him?

 

Moore was so old that he went 36-2-1 in his next 39 fights, only losing to Patterson. He avenged the loss and the draw he had to the other opponents.

THE MENTAL GYMNASTICS TO SAY MOORE WAS OLD AND SHOT IS HILARIOUS

 

amazing, so you’re gonna say Archie Moore due to his age and wear and tear was still not good? I can argue he was still great at that time, knocking off several top heavyweight contenders going into the Marciano fight and then winning 36 of his next 39 fights with his only loss being to Floyd Patterson. yet you wanna tell me because Moore was older and had a lot of fights, the win over him for Marciano means nothing? I got news for you, people fought a lot back then. It wasn’t uncommon.