Sonny Liston vs Joe Fraizer

The difference in physical strength would be more deciding than the weight gap, didn't Foreman say Sonny was the only person to back him up?

 

Yeah, and that was an out of prime and out of training Sonny.
On top of that, Chuck Wepner said that the Liston he fought was just as strong punch wise as the Foreman he fought.
From both of these comparisons, we can easily guess that a prime Sonny Liston was a stronger puncher than Foreman, so the destruction seen here would be no different, if not even worse.

 

A 19-year-old Foreman said that. It is not exactly mind-blowing that a man in his late thirties can overpower a teenager. Granted, nineteen is a man & late thirties are past your peak, but it wouldn’t exactly be phenomenal for such an occurrence.

Would prime Liston overpower a 25-year-old Foreman? I’m not so sure.

 

Foreman wasn't a normal 19 year old himself, I'm pretty sure he was still around 220 at that age. I wonder how far off his strength was compared to '73-74, do we have any other Liston strength examples?

 

I don’t know that I would call it an example. Foreman has a history of being generous to these guys. Not saying it’s untrue, it very possibly is, but it’s not what I’d call a reliable example.

For the record I narrowly favour Liston in a fight, but I don’t know that I’d call him more physically powerful than Foreman. Maybe, maybe not. I do think Foreman hit a little harder.

 

I can try and find some, but it's hard to find many statements about other fighters pre 70's, since those fighters are either dead or don't have any recorded statements of their competition.

 

I bet confidently Foreman would tell you Marciano would’ve beaten him too, though.

 

Foreman also said a FOTC Frazier would’ve beaten him.

Frazier’s my favourite fighter so I’ll take his word on that.

 

Saying that like he didn't eat Frazier's hooks in their first fight without flinching. Lol

 

I understand why people would pick Sonny, it is a great matchup. For me, I have Joe.

Liston is not nearly the puncher nor the uppercut artist of a George Foreman. They did their work in completely different ways, and had completely different physical specs. Frazier could not physically bully Foreman where he would have an easier time with Liston who did a lot of work at mid range and long range with big sweeps and straight shots.

Frazier had no quit in him and I think that Frazier would surprise Sonny with his tenacity. Liston never fought someone like Smokin' Joe and Sonny was hittable himself. This would be a brutal bout but I think Frazier is a far superior infighter and Sonny doesn't have the handspeed/foot speed of an Ali to keep Frazier off of him, nor the inside power of a Foreman. Liston would have to tag Frazier coming in and then maintain the distance to win imo. I think that is a losing gambit.

Sonny never beat someone as good as Joe Frazier. It is reductive to say because Sonny could bang and had some physical power that Frazier would just crumble. Give Smokin' Joe two good eyes and who even knows how the Foreman fights go. I doubt he gets stopped like he did.

 

One thing about Liston though is he was considerably more accurate than Foreman, & with similar punching power. Take a look at how many shots Foreman misses in Jamaica. Liston would land more often, & about as hard. I suppose Frazier is in FOTC shape here, which is better than Jamaica.

 

Foreman was a lot more wild with his power whereas Liston was a lot more measured, this is also shown in their fighting styles.

 

The paradox is I think Liston’s more measured approach, which is what lends him his greater accuracy which could win him the fight, also opens the door a little to let Frazier warm up & score an outside chance of victory in a way he never could with the more energetic & wild Foreman.

 

I agree, whether or not that would be an advantage here, I don't know. I think Frazier's style was to bring chaos to the orderly boxer, and when he got in there with awkward big guys like Bonavena and Foreman it could fall apart. Liston was a heck of a boxer, and Frazier would be the component of chaos. Foreman was such a shock to Frazier, punches coming from crazy angles, in positions you normally are safe from big power (chest to chest, off to the side in close, underneath your opponent, etc), I don't think Sonny would fit in that paradigm