In world title fights Joshua has been willing to fight top up and coming fighters

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Jun 30, 2024.


  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    I am a fan of the sport (no doubt like your good self) and can't understand some of the double standards that get written.
    I saw a recent post where it said something like why does Joshua fight older fighters but when I looked at other recent champions during his era can't find another fighter who has fought as many young (under 30) up and comers in world title fights
    I think it was a bit misunderstood by Dynamicpuncher who I think was possibly trying to discredit the wins rather than just look at what I had written which wasn't trying to build up or knock down
     
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  2. bluebird

    bluebird Boxing Addict Full Member

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    AJ will probably be ranked higher than Fury when it's all said and done.

    Those Wilder wins have aged badly...
     
  3. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not blowing anything out of context your words were "Top up and coming fighters" I do not consider Martin and a late replacement Ruiz fall into that category.

    Because you're listing Parker's achievements again, and i never disagreed with your answer of Parker originally. And as i said "i already gave Joshua credit for the Parker win" so that's why i'm not sure why you're listing Parker's achievements again when i already established that in my original answer that i agreed with you and there is no debate in regards to Parker.

    So why are you saying "top up and coming fighters" when they were not ? if you're not disputing Ruiz was a late replacement not ranked in the top 10 and was not a world champion then i'm not really understanding what you're disagreeing with me about ?

    1. Wladimir Klitschko
    2. Deontay Wilder
    3. Kubrat Pulev
    4. Luis Ortiz
    5. Anthony Joshua
    6. Joseph Parker
    7. Bermane Stiverne
    8. David Haye
    9. Andy Ruiz Jr.
    10. Dillian Whyte
    Those were the rankings i see but i believe they're end of the year rankings, so Martin may of been briefly ranked for 2 months or so as number 10 when he won a vacated belt. But realistically Martin has never been considered a top fighter before or after fighting Joshua.

    This was your original post.

    "In world title fights Joshua has been willing to fight top up and coming fighters as in under the age of 30."

    You're classing them as top fighters which they wern't, and in 2 of those fights Martin was only a world champion from winning a vacant belt vs a nobody. Dubois has been gifted the belt as i said and is not really a legit world champion.

    I understand the argument you're making in regards to the ages of the fighters mentioned but in regards to "top fighters" i do not agree.

    I never said you did you seem to be missing the point that you originally made in your own thread. My issue is you're calling them top fighters and they were not. Ruiz was only world rated after beating Joshua in a shocking upset, and Joshua was forced to fight him again to basically save his career.

    Joshua has fought more of the known Heavyweights than anyone else of this era i agree with though, and that's what i mean in regards to filler wins which is not an insult BTW in regards to Joshua.

    All i'm saying is you're calling these world title wins against top upcoming fighters but actually look at the context behind it and it's not as impressive as you're claiming.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2024
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  4. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Fair enough
    Tell me why you don't think Martin or Ruiz at the respective particular times were not up and coming at that particular time
    Ruiz went on at that time to win WBA WBO and IBF HW titles



    Highlight where I listed Parkers achievements please


    You can't tell me how they are not.
    ATM J Anderson would be thought of as a young up and coming fighter. He has yet to score any major wins but is a young up and coming fighter which is what Martin was. A young up and coming fighter, undefeated and won a vacant title.
    Not sure how you can disagree?



    1. Wladimir Klitschko
    2. Deontay Wilder
    3. Kubrat Pulev
    4. Luis Ortiz
    5. Anthony Joshua
    6. Joseph Parker
    7. Bermane Stiverne
    8. David Haye
    9. Andy Ruiz Jr.
    10. Dillian Whyte
    yes they are end of year
    The link shows Martin was #9 when Joshua fought him.

    Now where have I ever wrote Martin was a top fighter

    Do show me where I have written that.
    This is where I am saying you are trying to alter the point and re debate something I haven't written, which is a sure sign of someone tying their selves in knots



    Yes as shown with the above and what you disagree with but can't put a good point forward as to why, other than Ruiz was a replacement not in the ring mag ratings which hasn't been disputed

    A bit like saying you couldn't call someone like Bakole up and coming became he is not in the ring mag

    I haven't classed them as top fighters at all. Up and coming means up and coming, not top.
    You are trying to tell me what I think rather than what I have written and I never wrote top fighters at all.
    Do I really need to copy and paste again for you? Obviously I do

    See above for hopefully the final time

    Once again
    Show me where I have said they are top fighters
    Do show me
    Once again, show me where I have made an argument for them being top fighters

    Please show me because if you can't it falls right into what I am saying about you trying to alter what was written due to not being able to actually debate what has been written




    Do you think someone has to be in the ring magazine to be world rated?
    Seriously?
    If you think that I am not trying to insult you but that is not the case
    Ruiz was rated in the WBA top 5 HW ratings when Joshua fought him the first time
    The respective fights were against up and coming HWs
    Ruiz was at #5 with the WBA and won WBA, IBF and WBO HW titles. I think that being at 5 with the WBA and winning the above titles was an up and coming HW

    Tell me how it wasn't?
     
  5. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Definitely a good win at the time though
     
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  6. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    It's interesting when you put up the yearly ratings (2016 I believe) for the ring mag as it further cements what I said about Joshua facing young (under 30 year old) up and comers.
    You use the ring mag to site world ratings in this debate and mention Ruiz not being in their ratings at the time they fought, but with what I believe is the 2016 yearly ratings you have put up, it has 3 fighters (up and comers at the time) besides Joshua at that time who were under 30 and Joshua faced all of them in those ratings
    Further cements what I wrote and what you were disagreeing with

    If you really think otherwise, who were the other top up and comers under 30? In your opinion?
     
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  7. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm bored of this debate no offense to you intended so i'm going to bid you a farewell i've made my points quite clear and i'm sticking to what i believe is right.
     
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  8. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    I did think this may be clearer really in that the 2016 yearly rankings you put up cements what I said about Joshua facing young (under 30 year old) up and comers.
    You use the ring mag to site world ratings in this debate and mention Ruiz not being in their ratings at the time they fought, but with what I believe is the 2016 yearly ratings you have put up, it has 3 fighters (up and comers at the time) besides Joshua at that time who were under 30 and Joshua faced all of them in those ratings

    Along with Joshua they were the up and comers at that time

    If you really think otherwise, who were the other top up and comers under 30? In your opinion?
     
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  9. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Martin and late replacement Ruiz lol

    Dubois will leave the top 10 very soon, he's no good, Hrgovic just wasn't that guy, overrated by me and many others. DDD is going to lose several fights after aj stops him, he's the same guy that looked like trash against Lerena, I don't rate him
     
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  10. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    AJ hasn't beaten a top 10 opponent since Ruiz 5 years ago.

    His marketing and fanboys try to make him out to be a take all comers type fighter, but it's not the case. The guy fought Ngannou when he could have fought ANY top 10 opponent.
     
  11. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    With due respect I think you are missing what was written.

    Just in simple terms
    Which other HW world champions during his era have fought as many top young (under 30 years of age) fighters? Not many I don't think
     
  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm not a fan of Joshua and not disputing above. The same would apply to Fury.
    In simple terms
    Which other HW world champions during his era have fought as many top young (under 30 years of age) fighters? Not many I don't think
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2024
  13. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    3 of these 4 guys were champs when he fought them/is going to fight them and thats the primary reason they fought. Opposed to being random prospects with 0s hes giving a shot too. Ruiz was having his 2nd title shot.
     
  14. MorvidusStyle

    MorvidusStyle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Martin was a fraud who won the belt because Duva got Fury stripped two weeks after beating Klitschko so her fighter Glazkov could fight for it. Glazkov did his knee in the opening rounds and Martin won by default.

    Parker won a scattered Fury title against Ruiz, who had never beaten anybody. Parker hadn't either. He didn't come to win.

    Ruiz never beat anybody and filled in for Miller who was their FIRST CHOICE for the title fight, an obese fraud. So they got another obese fraud in.

    Dubious was considered hype garbage until beating the Croatian.

    AJ selects terrible or inexperienced opponents for his title fights because he always wants the odds in his favour. That's why he ducked Wilder and Fury for years, as they were not inexperienced and not obese and not 40 years old (his other favourite opponent type).

    Anybody who buys the AJ story is a lemming.
     
  15. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm sure that is why those fights happened but in simple terms I was asking was

    Which other HW world champions during his era have fought as many top young (under 30 years of age) fighters? Not many I don't think