Holmes vs. Tunney

But I wasn’t specifying Heavyweight. The remark that riled me was that Tunney couldn’t carry Holmes’ jock strap - I find that pretty galling when Tunney had the plainly better career, wholesale.

 

I'm still not sure that is so.
Tunney was something of a weight bully,imo.

 

I hope that doesn’t refer to Greb, who was far & away compensated by being just about the greatest Boxer who ever lived.

 

As far as I can make out Tunney fought15 men ,180lbs and over,in 67 fights, and 25 fights with men over the 175lbs Lhvy limit.

Weights of some of his victims.

Foley 170lbs
Carpentier 173lbs
Delaney 177lbs
Greb 165lbs 171lbs,167lbs
Wiggins 174lbs
Loughran 163lbs
Levinsky176lbs
Burke 175lbs
Koerner 172lbs
Houck173lbs
Smith166lbs
Keiser 167lbs
O' Hare167lbs
Larsen173lbs
Sullivan 170lbs
Pearce166lbs
O Dowd 170lbs
Wenzer 165lbs

 

Tunney had
9lbs
4lbs
14lbs
Advantage in his 3 wins ,and 9 lbs advantage in their draw.
SRR may also be considered the greatest boxer that ever lived ,but you wouldn't expect him to give 14 lbs away

 

You know, it’s funny. Just the other day someone posted Hopkins & Merchant arguing over weight classes (Hopkins saying differences in weight are over-rated, Merchant accusing Hopkins of being an embarrassment for calling out Jr Middleweights), but I have to agree with Hopkins. Especially with all the extra weight classes now (which are driven by greed & belt production, not a need because of size & safety concerns), weight has reached a point among Boxing fans of insane over-evaluation, & here’s an example, IMO. Twelve pounds, for instance, that’s about five kilos. At Flyweight or Bantam, that matters. At Light-Heavy or Heavyweight? I don’t think so. Then you factor in the quality of guys like Greb, Loughran etc, & Tunney’s career has fewer holes in it than Holmes’, IMO.

 

That’s a range of 2-6.5 kilograms, among Light-Heavyweights. It’s really not game-changing in the way Boxing fans have been conditioned to think. Two kilos? Five? Among world-class fighters that size? How many times did Holmes outweigh his opposition?

 

I believe a man 6'3"212lbs is big enough to beat anyone ,IF he is good enough.
I don't think that applies to a man 5'8"167lbs.
Of the available stats.Holmes in his 1 st career outweighed 20 of his opponents
Second career 17.
Total of 37 in a 75 fight career.
Holmes fought 19 men who were either champions or top ten ranked,several of them when past his prime.

 

No. Gene may have been as fast as Larry but the latter's substantial weight advantage would be pivotal.

 

Holmes fought 19 men who were either champions or top ten ranked, and several of them when he was past prime.

 

Holmes was 3 inches taller ,23lbs heavier ,with 5 inches more reach.
That's significantly smaller.

 

Gibbons was 34, 179lbs having his last fight.

 

I’m aware, I’m only pointing out how fast Gene’s offense looked and how heavy his right hand was, because the footage is good and colorized. Tunney was a stellar fighter and his resume bares that out. I’m picking Holmes but Gene was good enough and tough enough to imo give him trouble.

 

Personally I’d say the size is the clincher in this fight, but the foundation is the stylistic match up. Holmes isn’t a good style for Tunney, & his height & reach will exacerbate that. As for their opposition I regard Tunney’s résumé substantially deeper, at the very least during their respective peaks where we can glean the most from how good they were on their best day. Obviously, Holmes makes up some ground as an old man giving good accounts of himself in his forties against the likes of Holyfield & Mercer.

 

Without offering an opinion, some things to consider.
Tunney fought a much higher level of opposition, and there is more to it than size. Levinsky, Jeff Smith, Tommy Gibbons, Delaney, Greb. You will learn more fighting those guys than you will against Leroy Jones and Mike Weaver.
If Tunney chose to fight by moving and picking his spots, how comfortable would Holmes be chasing him?
I don't think that there is much argument that Larry's best punch was his jab. You counter a jab with a jab and Tunney was known for having a very educated and very stiff jab. The natural counter to a jab, and a very effective way to get inside of a taller fighter, is the right hand to the heart; if you read about Tunney, he was noted for this punch.
Once they are close, I suspect Tunney is the better body puncher; he worked well there with both hands. How much will that be offset by Larry being bigger and, presumably, stronger and grabbing him? Would Larry use his longer arms to start tying up at distance? That would keep Gene from moving in and out fluidly. And Holmes had a reputable uppercut inside.