In world title fights Joshua has been willing to fight top up and coming fighters

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Jun 30, 2024.


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  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Didn't ignore it
    Remember I said up and comers under 30 in world title fights


    Excuse for what?
    I never made excuses for anything
    I pointed out that in world title fights Joshua has fought young up and comers under the age of 30
    Asked who had fought as many in title fights during his era
    That is the question and anything else is just side material
    It is also the question that has been ducked and ignored
    Miller was rated higher than those 2 at the time I believe, but you have said before that it is your personal opinion that counts over facts.
    So you think after Joshua Beat Povetkin in 7 rounds he should have potentially looked to face Hunter in 2020 coming off a draw with 40 year old Povetkin?
    You're not really making much sense with that unless you were thinking a warm up etc?
    Rivas in 2019 was losing to former Joshua opponent Whyte and not been overly active since
     
    bailey, Jul 2, 2024
    bailey, Jul 2, 2024
    #61
  2. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Otto Wallin was rated as a Top 10 contender by The Ring Magazine and Top 5 contender by TBRB. Kubrat Pulev was also rated as a Top 10 contender by TBRB.
     
    MaccaveliMacc, Jul 2, 2024
    MaccaveliMacc, Jul 2, 2024
    #62
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  3. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No he wasn't, if he was he shouldn't have because he didn't do anything to deserve the spot above those two. Getting beat up by his replacement doesn't excuse the inactivity post rematch
    Nothing was ignored it doesn't really matter, he had 3 of the belts. World title fights alone yes you're right, that still doesn't describe the bulk of his resume of old over the hill fighters. Parker is his only good win over a young fighter. Ruiz was a replacement for Miller who did nothing and he beat aj. Don't even mention Charles Martin
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 2, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 2, 2024
    #63
  4. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    He fought Povetkin 22st September and Ruiz 1st of June which if splitting hairs is closer to 8 months than 9 months, but either way Wilder and Fury had a couple of times had similar time off between a couple of defences (COVID has been a factor with some of this and could not be helped) so I'm really not sure what the issue for one fighter and not another is, if one time between defences there was a gap of 8-9 months
    Of course every fan of boxing wants to see active champions and boxers but that doesn't happen as much as it used to
    Interestingly with Usyk now (COVID has been a factor with some of this and could not be helped) that since moving up to HW in 2019 (so not just world title fights) has only fought once in each year.
    If the rematch with Fury happens in December it will be the shortest time he will have had between bouts at HW
     
    bailey, Jul 2, 2024
    bailey, Jul 2, 2024
    #64
  5. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ok so during his era please tell me what other champions fought more top young HW contenders (30 and under) than anyone else in world title fights?
    I ask this as you wrote
     
    bailey, Jul 2, 2024
    bailey, Jul 2, 2024
    #65
  6. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Of course his era only. The goal of the thread tries to divert from the ages of his best wins. You've done well

    If you wanna ignore resume, contrain it to that period, make it alphabet fights only and look at rankings alone then yes he did, aj had 3 of the belts, otherwise guys like Kabayel have actually beat more young "top" fighters and Joyce has him tied. Martin hasn't done anything and fell off. Ruiz wasn't ranked before beating aj and currently isn't in there. Aj honestly only has Parker
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 2, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 2, 2024
    #66
  7. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    With Kabayel, who are you referring to?
    Sanchez was 31 and Makhmudov was 34 when he beat them
    Which under 30 year old fighters were you referring to?
    This was about world title fights during Joshua's era

    Just out of interest, do you rate Kabayels first 25 wins greater than Joshua's first 25 wins?
     
    bailey, Jul 2, 2024
    bailey, Jul 2, 2024
    #67
  8. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They weren't past their prime right in it if anything so those ages don't matter to me. Past prime is generally 36+ and we'd see a decline. When you only look at world title fights in ajs era then he has an argument. I would rate ajs first 25 wins higher due to their ranking overall aj has a better record, but he had way more opportunities and Kabayel is still undefeated. Simply looking at their wins over "young contenders" it's debatable but I digress

    It doesn't change that his best wins were way past it and the Martin win does nothing to his legacy because he had no good wins and lost to others, Ruiz was a late replacement for Miller and wasn't ranked before beating aj himself. For young fighters I only rate the Parker win due to context, that is the crux of the argument.
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 2, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 2, 2024
    #68
  9. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    I try to keep a fair context and of course Josh's had more opportunities
    He was an olympic gold medallist who was given massive attention
    Of course he would have more opportunities.

    You say you feel Joshua had a better resume in his first 25 fights than Kabayel but say you feel Joshuas best wins were past it, but Wladimir and Povetkin were big fights and I expect if he didn't face them that you would then be critical

    Are you critical of Fury for being lined up for the rematch with Wladimir?
    I wouldn't be. Wladimir was rated number 1

    Also to say all Joshuas big fights were past it fighters. Do you think Ruiz was past it?
    You say the age of 36+ so are you critical of Fury for choosing not to face Usyk until he was past 36?
    Or Parker for facing Zhang?
     
    bailey, Jul 4, 2024
    bailey, Jul 4, 2024
    #69
  10. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes 39 and 41 respectively and he almost lost to inactive beltless Wlad. Wlad was told not to finish aj off, bad strategy. Watch the Povetkin fight over. Povetkin was winning until he gassed, I'm convinced he would KO aj in his prime. with everything known ajs record is quite overrated to me. Those are good wins, they still have large asterisks
    Contract
    No but he smashed aj and wasn't ranked prior to that. He didn't have any wins either and came in 20 pound overweight just for aj to run all night, 0 confidence.

    If you wanna count that on his record go ahead but I wouldn't write home about it
    No Usyk is elite and beat aj even if he's getting old but Fury is also past it. Zhang has been old for years now
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 4, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 4, 2024
    #70
  11. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I will say this is he lost to Ruiz and he has been the one who has fought everyone and Ruiz has not done much in 5 years.
     
    PernellSweetPea, Jul 5, 2024
    PernellSweetPea, Jul 5, 2024
    #71
  12. kriszhao

    kriszhao Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They don't want to answer it because they know they are wrong.
     
    kriszhao, Jul 5, 2024
    kriszhao, Jul 5, 2024
    #72
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  13. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Sorry for the late response
    Wladimir wasn't inactive.
    He was training for the Fury return which had been delayed before the rematch that then didn't happen
    Not sure what that has to do with anything?
    I felt Povetkin was winning early on
    I don't recall him gassing though
    Who knows? Possibly
    We can only go by what actually happened.
    It was a good win for Joshua



    fair enough

    I think all professional fights have a contract

    He was rated. Think he was #5 with the WBA

    Why wouldn't you?
    It was a clear win and certainly counts on Parkers record


    I do agree that Usyk is elite. He has had an excellent career but you are basing him being elite for beating Joshua at HW who you don't seem to rare or are you only now saying Usyk is elite because he beat Fury and if that is the case Usyk is older than what you called prime for HW and Usyk came up from CW.
    Consistency[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2024
    bailey, Jul 8, 2024
    bailey, Jul 8, 2024
    #73
    kriszhao likes this.
  14. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Not disputing that
    Can go that way

    A few years ago Kabayel beat Chisora and didn't score any big name wins for years after whereas Chisora fought some more recognised names
    Kabayel has now recently scored some noticeable wins
    It happens sometimes
     
    bailey, Jul 8, 2024
    bailey, Jul 8, 2024
    #74
  15. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He was out the ring for about 2 years. But the main point is he was 41 and beltless and you decline. He was already past it against Fury, probably Jennings. It's a good win but context people.
    Based on him going life and death and Vitali telling Wlad to let him off the hook deliberately, I'm certain a prime Klitschko with Steward KOs him. It's quite unbelievable the aj fans think otherwise, they never seem to care about age and how sluggish Wlad and Povetkin looked. They were good wins but that doesn't mean they weren't well past their prime, they were. the aj being green argument doesn't convince me. Gold medalist (fraud), smashed everyone before Wlad, had the young and speed, and stylistically was more agressive than he is today, Wlad would probably have an easier time against a modern aj who doesn't take as many risks
    I'm was talking about aj beating Ruiz.
    He proved he was elite. I'll admit he was past it both fights but still beat them. Although it would be quite the statement for Fury to win the rematch something aj couldn't do. A slight asterisk for Fury due to age tho.
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 8, 2024
    MarkusFlorez99, Jul 8, 2024
    #75
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