Larry Holmes vs Sonny Liston

I didn’t say they weren’t good fighters & I didn’t say anything at all about Williams or Patterson.

 

Thinking about this one long & hard, I am going to back Liston - on the strength of his longer jab disrupting Holmes’ enough to set up a stoppage. Boy, it’d be touch & go.

Liston in six.

 

Ah, fair enough. I mean, I was going to point out that Mike DeJohn was a ranked contender in his prime, who beat multiple top 10 opponents both before and after his loss to Liston, and was a better win than Ribalta or Ferguson by any possible metric. But obviously, since you've pronounced "case closed", my hands are tied.

 

Hard to beat the encyclopedia of boxing mate!!!

 

Liston couldn't stop DeJohn, Whitehurst,Machen and Howard in 6 and they were nothing to even compare to Hopmes eho was superior fighter and bigger man.

 

Ranked or not he was just a punching bag unlike Ribalta and Ferguson who were bigger men and better fighters.

 

'Clay caught me cold and the count was messed up, and that's all there was to it. Clay knocked me down with a good punch. Anybody can get caught cold in the first round, before you even work up a sweat. And when I was down, Clay stood right over me. No, I never blacked out, not for a second. But I wasn't gonna get up, either, not with him standin' over me. See, you can't get up without puttin' one hand on the floor, and so I couldn't protect myself, and he can hit me on the way up.

So there was Walcott and Clay wrasslin' over me and Walcott finally got him to a corner or somethin', and then I got up and Clay come back and we started back to fightin' again. And Nat Fleischer began wavin' his arms at ringside and Walcott stopped the fight. Nowadays Nat Fleischer says he was just callin' Walcott over to tell him that the timekeeper wanted to see him or somethin', but other people says it was Nat Fleischer stopped the fight.

I was never counted out. I coulda got up even right after I was hit. And I still felt pretty good when I did get up. I mean I could still go on. What Walcott shoulda done, he shoulda sent Cassius to a neutral corner. When the referees call you out in the center of the ring before a fight, they tells you that: go to a neutral corner. And that's when they count you out, not with no fighter standin' right over you. They shouldn't have fighters refereein' no fights no way. They should have people that don't get excited.'

- Sonny Liston

 

Better based on what exactly? Not career wise obviously

 

When you’re done calling Jesse Ferguson & Jose Ribalta better fighters than Mike DeJohn I’ll take more note of what you have to say here.

 

I don't even know where this is going at this point. You don't have to show signs of brain damage to be shot. Signs of being shot include (but aren't limited to), moving slower, having less instinctive reflexes, and gassing more quickly. Liston hit all these check boxes to a Tee.

Oh yeah I forgot. "Excuses" don't count for fighters you dislike. While guys like Charles, Marciano, etc get all the excuses in the world for subpar performances and/or losses.

A myth repeated by no-nothings such as yourself. I'm not explaining it to the likes of you.

I agree, Liston's lifestyle choices were his problem. I was giving you the reason why Liston didn't age as well as Holmes. Nobody is making excuses here.

 

lol I'm trying so hard to not engage him as it's clearly a waste of time, but his replies are so stupid I just can't sit out.

 

As much as I'm for Holmes in this argument, BF is crazy. I remember replying to some thread with him a while ago and his claims were so insane that I swore off replying to him.

 

And Holmes too, he had 2 years layoff but still got back and beat some fighters and gave trouble to some excellent prime fighters like Holyfield and McCall

You bring their childhood and their personal lifes as a excuse which is pathetic.
Many boxers had tough childhood, like Dempsey or Jack Johnson but no one used that as excuse but you do, because it's your hero who was talked about.

Not a myth but a fact, he avoided all good fighters to fight guys like Wepner,Martin or Iron Johnson instead fighting Quarry,Bonavena,Frazier,Ellis,Chuvalo,Foster,Mathis etc.
Holmes at that age was fighting prime Mercer,Tyson,Holyfield and McCall, he didn't avoid anyone unlike Liston.

You are because you bring childhood and lifestyle because hero did worse than Holmes.

 

Based on everything.
Holmes fought better and bigger fighters than Liston, but Liston paroles can't take that.