Sonny Liston: “The Strongest Heavyweight I Ever Dealt With” - George Foreman

Now you're making yourself dumber and dumber because I're proven what I wanted and you pulled the weakest argument that hs nothing to do with our debate.

 

“Let's see, my mother had either 12 or 13 children," Sonny recalls. "No, I'm sure it was 13." He, however, can only account for nine. "E. B. Ward, he's the oldest, a boy child almost 40 years old now. It's been a good while since I seen him. Next comes J. T. I always call him Shorty, and he's close behind E. B. After J. T. there's Leo and then my sisters Clarety, Annie and Alcora, Curtice, me and Wesley. Annie and me was closest, and I see a lot of her. She always kids me because I was bigger than her, yet she would rock me to sleep. Curtice and J. T. get together with me sometimes, and I saw Wesley, the baby, in '58 or '59, but the others have wandered off someplace." - Gilbert Rogan Sports illustrated.


“If you go to the National Archives in Washington, DC and pull up the microfilm for Forrest City, Arkansas you will find Tobin Liston’s 1930 census family card. But Charles L. Liston is not on it. His mother, Helen, is listed, as are his sisters Clytee, Annie and Alcora, and his brothers J.T., Leo and Curtis, who is the youngest at six months. This means that Liston could not have been born before late 1930 and that the oldest he could have been when he fought Ali the first time was 33-years-old.

The 1940 U.S. Census reports have been released. Tobin Liston and his family come into view on a rented farm in backwater Smith Township on April 23rd of that year. They moved there from backwater Johnson Township sometime between 1930 and 1934. Tobin was sixty-seven and working on the farm sixty hours a week despite his advanced age. Helen was minding the chores in and around the rented shack and it’s easy to conjure up a picture of her wiping her hands on an apron as she greets the census taker. It would have been her who gave the names and ages of the children: Leo (“17”), Annie (“15”) and Alcora (“13,” called “Cabbie”), and there, between eleven-year-old Curtis and two-year-old Wesley, “Charles L” appears on record for the first time.

His age is given as “10” which means that 1930 is the likeliest year of his birth.”

 

His parents were clearly mentally unwell, I doubt they could keep track of all 13 children. Anyways yea, it was fun discussing with you. Have a good one.

 

More and more pathetic excuses, his parents are now called sick by you, you maybe a doctor and checked them out?

 

Its an analogy to explain what an “appeal to authority” is, given you say “unaccurate” I assumed you wouldnt knew what it is, had yo lay it out for you.

 

I'll be honest here people view Liston being born in 1919 as a crackpot theory. Your content is generally very good and you've initiated some great threads but people aren't going to easily buy the notion Liston was stopping Wepner at 50. You seem to have some sort of attachment to this issue but you're not going to convince most people. We don't dislike Liston at all or have anything against him hes a terribly misunderstood person but the idea he was rising in his late 30s and running through semi elite fighters like cardboard a decade later is something you will need clear documentation to get us to believe and even then we would be skeptical. Because its a very bold claim and its going to held to a higher standard of evidence than the idea Liston was born on some random day in 1930.

What are your sources more credible than wikipedia? The documentation of his actual birthday is more flimsy than usual but theres no reason to question the more general time period. And that is what you are questioning.

 

His dad condemned him to being a mule to work on the farm and violently abused and the mom did nothing to stop it and opted to run away. These are clearly functional adults

 

Again with weak arguments, your just embarasing yourself.

 

I don't care, until you prove me with valid sources that they were ill with doctor saying that, I'm not taking that as argument.

 

The 1930, 1940, and 1950 census all contradict each other when it comes to Liston’s actual age. 1950 census says Liston was 27. When Liston got arrested in 1950 he told the police he was 20, the press said he was 22.

"CHARLES (SONNY) LISTON v was on cortisone for five days immediately prior to his ill-fated title defense on Feb. 25, according to a report released Tuesday by the Senate Antitrust and Monopoly subcommittee. prepared by the State's attorney's office of Dade county, the report quoted Liston's adviser and personal physician as saying that Listen also was under going physiotherapy for pains in his left, arm for an 8 day Period before the fight. The Miami boxing Commission was not notified of the treatment, the report said. After the fight, according to the report, Dr. Lester Russin and other doctors at Miami's St. Francis Hospital confirmed Liston's injury as an inflamed tendon in his left arm. Dr. Russin was quoted as saying the condition was "particularly prevalent In older athletes.

"The report said that Dr. Russin estimated Liston's actual age as between 38 and 41. The former champion has listed himself as 30 years old."

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/98505474/the-philadelphia-inquirer/

 

I agree Liston being born in 19 is wacko, but so is him being born in the 30s. Sailor Liston was clearly not sonny. For him being born before the 30s, we have his own claims and to aid us. He himself said so to his gym mates. My source for almost anything Reguarding Liston is Paul Gallender, predominantly his interview with fayz boxing on youtube. But ironically my main disagreement with him is that he thinks Sailor is Sonny which I disagree with. Honestly, I dont know when he was born and dont even have a general idea and im not gonna act like I do.

 

Dude this is awesome thanks, I had never even thought of checking a census so learning all this new info is awesome.

 

I have a theory about Liston's so-called fear of needles and injections. When cops arrested or questioned him, as they did dozens of times, they probably checked his arms for "tracks". Ex-convicts routinely have to endure this. That legendary fear of needles could have been explained this way: He didn't want to be tagged as a heroin user.

 

So your theory is he made up the fear as to avoid being outed? Thats interesting… never heard that before

 

I heard there was no actual evidence of Liston being afraid of needles, and that it was a myth spread by a few friends in the decades after he passed. I also heard that Louis got him into heroin, and that they often shot it up together. If this is all true, odds are he just OD'd