Joe Frazier vs Rocky Marciano

Lyle was outpunched and many times hurt against Quarry and Quarry wasn't a heavy puncher.

How many good HWs or even LHws Patterso stopped?

 

Two-fisted power. He knocked guys out with the right and the left.

 

I know Marciano isn't Foreman, I'm just saying that the human body can only take so much. Marciano likely hit harder than Ali, despite being smaller. If Frazier takes that many shots From Marciano, a stoppage is possible.

On the other hand, Frazier hit harder than Charles and Frazier wouldn't have to go looking for Marciano with that left hook. Charles managed to split Rocky's nose.

I can't see it going to the cards, regardless of who wins.

 

But that doesn't take away from him as a heavy hitter, which is what I'm referring to him as in this case.

Moore, Jackson, London, Johannson, Machen, Cooper.

 

I just see it being a bitter war to the end, no man will stay down.

 

Oh you can have a corner stoppage, referee stoppage, doctor stops the fight

 

I know, I don't believe any of those things will happen either.

 

Frazier via Close Decision. Frazier is bigger, faster, has better defence, better head movement, better footwork and is more agile. Marciano has more power, strength & chin. Neither really has any sort of jab. Frazier edges it due to being a better boxer. Tough fight.

 

Fight favors Marciano on just about every front. Better power in both hands, better defense, better chin. Equal stamina. Frazier’s left was faster but inside Marciano would be roughing him up. I don’t think Frazier’s chin carries him past ten in a terrific fight till it’s stopped. Marciano by TKO 10

 

I suppose let's bring up Ted Lowry then who Marciano fought when he was 21-0 who almost stopped him early and by some accounts Marciano got a gift decision aswell.

Lowry was 66-49 and had lost his last 7 fights.

And Marciano is not close to Foreman's power stop it......

Marciano hits hard relative to his size as a small Cruiserweight but hes not in the same league as 220+ pound big punching Heavyweights.

 

Marciano started late and didn't have many amateur fights while Frazier was golen gloves and olympic hw champ.
Marciano still whooped Lowry in the rematch.

Maybe in raw power but punching power is close, Marciano lifted Joe Louis 215lbs 6ft 2 man out of the ring with one punch same way Foreman did to Frazier.

Shavers was 200lbs man and was the hardest puncher of all times, harder than some 250 lb "big hard punchers".

 

Marciano had 21 professional fights when he fought Lowry, Frazier had 12 professional fights when he fought Bonavena. If the Bonavena fight is relevant then so is the Lowry fight.

Frazier also beat Bonavena convincingly in their rematch but i didn't see you mentioning that ? atleast Bonavena was a ranked contender Lowry was a journeyman.

Yes but raw power was a major factor in the Frazier fight Foreman was able to push off the smaller Frazier, the advantages Foreman had over Frazier like physicality, size, raw power as you say Marciano doesn't have those advantages.

Shavers was between 205-210 pounds and he was physically alot more imposing than Marciano and had atleast a 20 pound advantage over Marciano.

 

Marciano was never knocked down by Lowry while Frazier was against Bonavena, that's why Marciano got a real decision while Frazier didn't beat Bonavena convincingly because he was dropped and was getting outboxed while Marciano was only outboxed.

Frazier beat Bonavena in the rematch and so did Marciano Lowry, but Marciano beat Lowry so much his face looked like a sandwich.

That's even shoeing how strong was Marciano who didn't have Foreman size and was able to lift as big man as Joe Frazier out of the ring with one punch.

Marciano wasn't as strong and as hard puncher as Foreman, but he's very close to that kind of power.

Marciano was natural 195-200 lbs who trained down to 185-190, shavers was natural 210, not big difference, smaller difference than Shavers compared to Lennox Lewis,Hasim Rahman or David Tua yet Shavers punched harder than all of them.

 

Marciano was staggered by Lowry numerous times and almost stopped in the 4th round, there is also numerous reports that Marciano got a gift decision and some even believe the fight was fixed here's one write up of the fight.


Michael J. Thomas of the Providence Journal wrote, "Marciano did not win the fight. This reporter gave it to Lowry, six rounds to four.”

The crowd of 3,696 booed the decision and some wondered if Lowry had thrown the fight. "There were some questions as to whether Lowry, who had come close to knocking out Marciano in the second, third and fourth rounds, deliberately bogged down in his attack after the fourth stanza," Thomas wrote. "Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth. He went into a shell and only occasionally landed power shots. He seemed to be carrying Marciano."

"It was Lowry, not Marciano, who was on the verge of scoring an early knockout, stinging Marciano with two terrific rights in the first round and then rocking him with two mighty uppercuts in the second. By the fourth, a staggered Marciano seemed just one punch away from being knocked out. But then, inexplicably, Lowry stopped fighting and retreated into a shell despite warnings from the referee to open up and a cascade of boos from the crowd. To many, it appeared that Lowry was deliberately carrying Marciano. Was foul play afoot? Was Lowry getting paid to lose? Or was he merely tiring? Whatever the reason, a revived Marciano managed to rally in the late rounds even though many of his punches missed their mark or lacked force. On the basis of his aggressiveness and constant punching, Marciano won a unanimous decision from the judges. Most observers felt, however, that Lowry should have won."

I don't think Shavers hit harder than Tua or Lewis, Tua has more impressive one punch KO's and so does Lewis and they're both considerably bigger than Shavers.

Marciano as i keep saying hits hard relative to his size and he has stamina to keep punching hard which is one of his best assets. But there are handful of Heavyweights over 205 pounds who hit significantly harder than Marciano.

Ruddock
Tyson
Shavers
Lewis
Tua
Wilder
Foreman
Wladimir
Louis = Prime
Frazier
Liston
Bruno
Haye

Put it this way if you pitted Marciano in the 60s/70s his power would be alot less apparent. And due to his swarming style of fighting and only being 5'10 with 67 inch reach fighting against bigger stronger fighters he wouldn't be as effective.

 

What are you on about?
Louis was leaning on the ropes when Marciano knocked him out, then he went limp and dropped. There was no "lifting" at all like the way Foreman made Frazier jump up from uppercuts.

Knockout is at 21:56

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