Guide me to the lineal heavyweight champion please.

It's simple.
If you think that a lineal champion is nonsense - then you think that POSSIBLE 4 (four) champions per category (or even two) - makes sense!

And now, so that they don't accuse me of being a fan of: Wilder, AJ, Fury, Usyk... I'll explain it to you using the example of LHW.

Artur Beterbiev is the lineal LHW champion, because he defeated the previous lineal LHW champion Gvozdyk.

Enlightened?

 

That's messy too as you acknowledge Chagaev was WBA champion in recess. Chagaev was also a last minute replacement for Haye (3 weeks notice I think it was). Klitschko wouldn't unify the WBA belt until 2011, against Haye.

I understand that Vitali being Wladimir's brother made it difficult for them to fight each other, but that was a problem for their family to resolve, not boxing.

 

I suppose as a concept it has its roots in the days of gladiatorial combat, royal lineage, and the game of thrones. Man fighting man, brother fighting brother, a battle for supremacy. Obviously back then there could well be a bloody end to a previous king or champion of the arena.

But just as royal lines became civilized and kings would merely abdicate to preserve a familial lineage with no love or blood lost, it appears boxing has become similarly "modern"

They are still modern gladiators, but the concept of lineage more resembles a monarcy overrun by privilege and court intrigue.

Maybe it's time to move on as you say.

 

It's interesting, as for example, when Jeffries returned, he didn't consider himself the champion. Neither did Joe Louis. Muhammad Ali claimed championship when he returned from his exile in 1970, but didn't do it in 1980. Yet, he wanted to present his Ring belt to the victor of Joe Frazier vs Jimmy Ellis before he changed his mind, lol. Looking at it historically, it largely depended on the returning champion himself? If he said he was still the champion, the public had to oblige and if he wanted to become the champion again, the public obliged as well? Small minority of people considered Ali the champion when he faced Frazier.

 

100% depends on the champion's disposition and how the public reacts to them.

The only thing that makes it really difficult is remembering which public and when.

For the most part, you can take 1722-1922 and wrap that entire chronology in a bow labeled "private". Because boxing was a public event but until bodies became a thing everything that made boxing was private.

Rules, weights, equipment, judges, refs, corners, prizes, 100% of what made the event was a private deal made between the boxers themselves.

So in that world it is less weird to claim you are champion even though you've handed off your belt ages ago. Also, most of that time frame people learn about boxing through word of mouth and the champion may very well have retired and returned before a man ever hears of the retirement.

As the sanction bodies take over the public is less interested in what a belt-less man has to say. I'd say the public is far less obliging these days but you can't deny it's still there.


My personal favorite modern lineal issue to laugh at myself is how they justify handing the title based on ranking like as if it's possible John L fought anyone rated 2 by anyone. But then they go on to say "going back to John L" - just my personal example of how I don't oblige the title or champions. 1 vs 2 fills a vacancy does it? In John L's time, you know, before the sanctioning bodies and the invention of ranked fighters.

 

I guess the press knew who are the best contenders. You don't need rankings to know that David Benavidez is Canelo's number 1 contender. But the lineal rules to how to fill the vacancy are so vauge and precedents differ from each other to such extent, that you just need to wait for the champion to gain universal recognition. But even then, Wladimir was universally recoginized as the champ during his days. Now there is a vocal minority questioning his lineal status because he wasn't undisputed. Acting like a 4 belt model was around there forver.

 

It ended with Gene Tunney.