HW Hofs- Usyk / Joshua / Wilder / Fury / Who else?

Wilder's Prime?.......did he ever really have a prime or did he just have competition that was lower level and the moment he stepped up and fought ranked opponents then he began getting exposed. The first Ortiz fight, I believe it was round 9, the fight should have been stopped. He was getting beat on for 45 seconds straight and not really responding. Had that been any other fighter......fight ends there. I'm not a big fan of "letting them go out on their shield"......I think that is idiotic. Especially when you have so many of them claiming they do this for their family and loved ones. How are you going to take care of anyone when you are a vegetable or have trouble communicating with them because of head trauma taken in a fight you clearly was being outclassed in, but you wanted to "go out on your shield".

 

Yes, but Ken Norton beat real fighters, like Ali and Quarry.

Hey, are you back to comment on Usyk being the savior of the heavyweight division? Because just to recap, you picked Wilder to beat Fury three times, you picked Joshua to beat Usyk twice, you made fun of those who were "waiting for Uysk to be the savior of the division," and you said something along the lines of Usyk just fighting Joshua to cash out.

That was all pretty spectacularly wrong.

 

Of the current bunch only those 4 will make it. But others may stake their claims going forward.

 

Why would Wilder make it?
Fury -beat Wlad, to become lineal champion. Also dominated his Trilogy with Wilder winning twice by knockout and settling for a disputed draw in his favor.
Usyk unified the cruiserweight division then moved up unified the heavyweight and captured the lineal crown.
Joshua - collected two belts, beat the aging hall of famer Wlad. Lost his titles to Ruiz, then regained them and beat a slew of top contenders such as Povetkin, Pulev, Parker, Whyte etc-
Wilder - beat Malik Scott in a suspicious fight, to earn the right to fight Stiverne for the wbc belt. Then made a bunch of awful defenses with the only half way decent opponent being Ortiz. Who was 38 years old or older and had twice been caught taking performance enhancing drugs. Wilder got absolutely dominated by Fury. Never fought Usyk, or Joshua. Didn’t fight former generational great Wlad. Or top names like Povetkin, Whyte, Pulev. When he finally faced legit opponents- Parker dominated him and Zhang blasted him out. In both instances he was younger than his career best win in Ortiz.
Now consider that it took Norton 11 years to enter the Hall of Fame - and he beat Ali, Jimmy Young, Quarry and hyped fighters like undefeated Bobick.
It took Riddick Bowe 7 years from his last official fight to enter but 20 years from his last meaningful fight against Golota. He defeated Prime Holyfield to become lineal champion and won his epic trilogy two fights to one.
It took Michael Moorer 16 years to enter the Hall of Fame (and he is a weak selection in my mind) but he still has the feather in his cap of defeating Holyfield to become Lineal champion and a noted light heavyweight career.
I’m sorry but if recent history is any indication Wilder falls way way short imo.
Now take in consideration that Vitali and Wlad ruled the division for 12 years and are the only 2 heavyweights to gain admission during that time. But somehow just as they retire 4 get to make it in, they haven’t even all fought each other. Wilder is a big no. And if people look at it objectively the answer is clear.

 

Now I want to take my reasoning one step further, and play my own Devil’s advocate- let’s say Wilder did make it in, without ever beating a lineal champion or a hall of fame fighter. What happens to Joseph Parker?? He would actually have a win over a Hall of fame fighter in Wilder, a win over an undefeated future unified champion in Ruiz, and a win over Zhang - Wilder’s conqueror and a fighter rated higher now than Ortiz, Wilder’s best win. By my logic (and the fact his resume is deeper than Wilders) Parker a peer of Wilders would also have to gain admittance. Now that brings the total number of hall of famers in this generation to 5. Ask yourself is this current crop really so good that 5 heavyweights are hall of famers. I’d say no way - that it’s actually a 3 deep, at best, class. And you’d have to drop Wilder and Parker. In fact to have Wilder in over Parker means you are basically rewarding Wilder for holding a belt hostage and facing cringe level opposition.
But I guess it’s ok to Fist the New Zealand fighter for the more preferable American fighter.
Parker actually fought Ruiz, Joshua, Zhang, Wilder, Chisora, and a host of other guys better than Wilder’s clown show.

 

Whether or not he was any good during his prime is slighty different. Prime years for me are when experience/skills are in balance with athleticism. I think it is fair to say Wilder is heavily reliant on athleticism, so his prime year's would likewise be heavily associated with being close to his athletic peak. I doubt he was getting any better passed 30 years old, let's put it that way.

 

Wilder has the 10 defenses and the KO% record. HOFs love records. The only HWs with more defences(whatever you think of them) are Louis, Ali, Holmes, Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko.

The HOF was founded after Moorer and Bowe made their debuts of course they had to wait a longer time than guys in later eras. The HOF had to take time sorting through a century of fighters from every weight class. Using how long they waited as a benchmark for how long Wilder or anyone from this era isn't going to have to wait isn't going to hold up.

Norton is the 1st non lineal champ in the HOF. He won't be the last.

 

All 4 are likely shoe ins for the HOF. Although I only think 2 of them are HOF worthy

 

Wilder certainly shouldn't be considered, there's over half dozen guys at HW at present with better records than Wilder.

Usyk is guaranteed HOF already.

AJ and Fury have potential to be

 

Nonsense. "Norton" is the guy who has one victory (a split decision) over a champion (in a non-title fight).

Wilder is 3-3-1 against champions in his era (should be 4-3, or even 5-2, given the slow count in the first Fury fight and the even SLOWER count in the third Fury fight ... that even the commentators were stunned by).

Norton's record against champions in his era is 1-4.

Also, in the lighter weight divisions, guys get in all the time based on being longtime champs ... and their quality of opposition - which isn't nearly as good as Wilder's - is never questioned.

What Hall of Famers did Ricard Lopez fight? He beat a bunch of guys who weighed 105 to 108 pounds (three whole pounds), the majority of those midgets were smaller than the average grade-school girl and had pretty mundane records to boot.

Wilder wasn't defending against guys with 9-3-3, 10-2, 13-4-1, 4-0 records, like Ricardo.

Ricardo's only in because he "sure beat a lot of them." He also wasn't fighting guys who weighed 20, 30, 40 pounds heavier than him in title fights. He wasn't defending against Felix Trinidad and Fernando Vargas.

And Ricardo wasn't getting thrown in with guys who weighed 70 pounds heavier than him in his final fight.

Light heavyweights like Antonio Tarver weren't starching Ricardo Lopez at the end of his career, and snide fans weren't saying 'told you Lopez sucked.'

A lot of you guys bashing him still don't grasp how scrawny little Wilder was destroying much heavier guys in every fight for the better part of a decade, and yet you turn right around and marvel at someone winning belts in a couple of divisions only 3 POUNDS apart.

The next generation of fans will get it. The hate some of you have toward him is too baked in.

It's always a harder road for heavyweights. The lighter-weight fighters get cut tons of slack.

"Oh someone outweighed me by three pounds the night of the fight, he's cheating."

Only with Wilder do people call the guy who is 20, 30, 40, 70 pounds lighter ... in every fight for a decade ... who is facing guys clearly on the juice or who have been busted previously ... the "bully."

 

Sven Ottke has more defenses than Wilder at middleweight and so far hasn’t gotten a whiff of the Hall. And many Ko artists like Ernie Shavers and Cleveland Williams have not gotten the call either. The Hall is going to have twist themselves into a pretzel to come up with the standard that allows a guy in, that’s fought mostly stiffs while leaving off many other fighters with more deserving records.

 

Earnie Shavers and Cleveland Williams never won anything ... and Cleveland was the bigger man in nearly all his fights. (You still don't get it.) Williams didn't go a decade giving up weight to EVERYONE he fought and still wasting them.

The last 12 years of Wilder's career ... he never outweighed anyone.

Name all these "KO artists" who gave up weight to EVERYONE they fought for 12 goddamn years?

And I have nothing against Sven Ottke. He and Calzaghe were pretty interchangeable to me until Joe fought and aged Hopkins and an aged Jones. Otherwise, they fought most of the same guys.

And Sven IS on the Hall of Ballot, last I saw. (I'm not a voter, though.)

 

Who cares that Wilder was outweighed in all his fights - you don’t get it- he’s in the heavyweight division - the unlimited weight class. Dempsey fought guys like Willard, Fulton, Firpo. Tyson fought Tucker, Lewis, and a ton of other guys bigger than himself. But those guy fought and won over legit top opposition. You’re nothing more than a die hard Wilder fan and you been on this site for years moving the goal posts to support Wilder. You weren’t bringing up weight 3 years ago when you were swearing his competition was good. Then you were swearing he would beat Fury everytime - then when he got destroyed it was Fury would beat Usyk and prove that Wilder only lost to the best etc etc etc. Any thing you can do to boost Wilder you’ll try. His resume is garbage. Usyk gave up just as much weight fighting Fury and fought Joshua a better opponent than anyone Wilder has a win on and guess what so far Usyk has won all 3 fights. Wilder lost all his big fights. And he had height and reach advantages. Not a hall of fame level talent or fighter

 

Pretty much this.

It's the hall of fame, not the hall of merit.

Some people can't separate the two sometimes.

It doesn't matter that Wilder's resume is objectively not particularly meritorious - it doesn't matter that holding a belt for years and fighting mostly journeymen is a waste of a huge chance to make fights with the best and a mockery of the belt.

What matters is Wilder's well known and heavily hyped - on name recognition he's likely to get in, despite having been hopelessly overrated and never having beaten a healthy legit contender (and it's debatable if he ever beat one at all).

Dubble is right that he's better P4P than most heavies with his resume would be... But it's kinda irrelevant considering nobody ever talks P4P about guys who haven't fought the top opponents available at their own weight - plenty of guys wanted to fight Wilder and he wanted no part of them.

If this was a hall of merit Wilder definitely wouldn't get in deservedly - but it's not, and he might well do regardless of whether he deserved the reputation he gathered.

 

The only world-class opponents he beat were Stiverne and Ortiz and I don't think either were bigger than Wilder given much of their weight was excess flab. Wilder was the naturally bigger man.

Ken Norton's win over Ali puts him in the hall