In the list of the best HWs ever Usyk will be able to get 8th maximum

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Boxing2019, Jul 17, 2024.


  1. gollumsluvslave

    gollumsluvslave Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,260
    5,171
    Dec 20, 2020
    My view on this is there is a big difference looking at ATG lists with a H2H or 'skills' lens, vs looking at resume.

    Usyk can't possibly be in contention for HW ATG Top 10 based on resume as his is not deep enough compared to the current top concensus 20.

    However if you look at H2H / skills it's a different proposition. Usyk is a really tough night for any HW in history, and that's even just the HW Usyk that beat Joshua and Fury, never mind the prime Usyk vs Gassiev.

    So I can see a case for Usyk in Top 10 HW lists based on H2H and overall skills (Top Trumps style), but when resume is brought in he drops down a fair bit having only 6 fights and not enough time or dance partners to elevate it any further.
     
  2. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,200
    31,486
    Jan 14, 2022
    And Fury has been a drug addict in the past and was coming off the worst performance of his career and hes 35.

    As I said you can discredit anyones resume.

    Holyfield still has a very good resume at Heavyweight and clearly a better one than Usyk.

    You keep talking about context but don't mention a majority of Holyfield's losses were in the 2000s when Holyfield was aged 40+ after a long grueling hard career where he'd been in countless wars.
     
  3. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,200
    31,486
    Jan 14, 2022
    You're not really understanding what I am saying you discredited other Heavyweights for having losses when they have double and triple the amount of professional fights of Usyk.

    For example Louis, Ali, Holmes, combined beat a staggering 78 ranked opponents and were consistently fighting championship fights 2 or 3 times a year.

    As I said pit Usyk in an era where he is consistently fighting top 10 opponents and having 2 or 3 fights a year scheduled at 12 and 15 rounds hes also bound to have a few losses aswell.

    I think people are a bit quick to jump on the bandwagon it's a good win for Usyk over Fury but he could lose his next fight and then what will people say ?

    Most people on this forum also had Fury losing to Ngannou and were calling him the biggest joke in boxing. So as I said it does seem baffling that those same people now have Usyk a top 10 P4P of all time and a top 10 Heavyweight ATG for beating a guy they had losing to an MMA fighter and who they were calling a joke.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2024
    AdamT and Noel857 like this.
  4. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,248
    3,721
    Jan 6, 2024
    I don't think he can reach that.

    Of his 5 fights at HW against contenders 4 have been competitive decisions. I do not see how people in the future with no connection to this time period rate him highly in comparison with the best of other eras. This is not getting into the whole only having 5 HW opponents thing. Theres nothing about Usyks resume that makes him look good in a comparison with HW champs in other eras.

    The people talking about Usyk overcoming size disadvantages are talking like hes Qawi, Langford or Manny Pacquiao and not Muhammad Ali. They are full of it.

    I'm open to rating guys with shorter resumes higher if they prove more with that short resume than someone with a longer one even if this is a little much. Usyk beat Fury and AJ and proved he was the best of this era. He proved nothing else.
     
    Noel857 and Dynamicpuncher like this.
  5. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,248
    3,721
    Jan 6, 2024
    "No one had ever to overcome such size proportions like usyk."

    This is objectively false and is nowhere remotley close to being true. A 6 ft 1 Chagaev beat a 7 ft Valuev to win a belt. Despite Chagaev being bloated Valuev still outweighed him 90 pounds. David Haye who has the same exact height and reach as Usyk beat Valuev despite being outweighed 100 pounds. So no Usyk giving up 30-40 pounds and 2-6 inches is no way shape or form historic.

    A better smaller HW has always been able to beat a lesser bigger HW. The issue is now the bigger HWs are better and theres more of them. A guy Muhammad Alis size being treated like a "smaller guy" and narrowly beating them actually supports that myth opposed to debunking it.
     
  6. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

    10,913
    9,922
    Oct 1, 2011
    As much as I love Usyk, I can rank him that high as a heavyweight. Not enough HW fights to justify that. I will say, on an all time P4P list, he may rank higher than most of the top 10 greatest HW's. Don't hold me to that, I didn't do much research on the subject.
     
  7. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

    42,532
    3,733
    May 4, 2012
    He's an ATG all around but not at Top 10 HW-wise. 4 good wins just isn't enough. Not his fault, obviously, just how boxing works these days unfortunately.
     
  8. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,200
    31,486
    Jan 14, 2022
    Nothing better than the local troll who thinks they're funny when they're not having an alter ego on the internet because they can't find another hobby to do other than trolling on the internet.

    Imagine being a grown man thinking trolling on the internet is amusing.
     
    Noel857 and The Real Lance like this.
  9. Kiwi Casual

    Kiwi Casual Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,064
    4,069
    Jul 31, 2021
    I'd personally rank Usyk over Holyfield. You're right to an extent on Usyk not reaching number 1 all time unless he has more fights at heavyweight, even though I think he beats most of them.
     
    Boxing2019 likes this.
  10. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

    47,647
    27,488
    Oct 23, 2011
    I will pray for you
     
  11. Boxing_Fan101

    Boxing_Fan101 Undisputed Available bookgoodies.com/a/1068623705 Full Member

    756
    933
    Jan 5, 2024
    I think Usyk is an amazing fighter and H2H rank is very highly however you can't compare him with only 5 wins at Heavyweight to other greats who fought a long list of opponents

    Now this isn't exactly Usyk's fault as he was busy cleaning out the cruisers but we are here to discuss his achievements at Heavyweight and having three impressive wins two against AJ and one against Fury (close fight) isn't really enough to rank higher than Louis who had 25 title defences, Wladimir who reigned for years and that's before looking at Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis hell even Tyson who's smaller than Usyk has a deeper resume even though Usyk's two best wins are better than any of Tyson's
     
  12. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,075
    36,002
    Jul 4, 2014
    Just because it is a bad point doesn't mean I don't understand it. Now, let's be clear. What you actually said is..

    "Usyk has only had barely over 20 professional fights and only 6 fights at Heavyweight.

    If Usyk was fighting consistently 2 or 3 ranked fighters a year in 12 and 15 round championship fights I'm sure he would have a few losses aswell."


    Bad point. Merely said that if he fought more he would have losses doesn't fly. Who would beat him? Someone would have to beat him, so who?
     
  13. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,075
    36,002
    Jul 4, 2014
    I don't believe it is for the reasons that I have cited...decline of the best fighters he fought, losses, and PED use.

    Yeah, some of Holy's losses were when he declines, and some are prime....Usyk doesn't have any. Any no, I don't buy that if Usyk jsut fought more someone would beat him. Again, who is that guy? He's beaten Fury and Joshua. Wilder? Parker? Ruiz?
     
  14. Kiwi_in_America

    Kiwi_in_America The Tuaminator Full Member

    5,441
    3,166
    Oct 19, 2006
    Usyk vs Parker

    NEEDS to happen
     
    velagod likes this.
  15. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,200
    31,486
    Jan 14, 2022
    We don't know because Usyk has only had 6 fights at Heavyweight but if he had a professional career with 40 or 50 fights. And was fighting consistently 2 or 3 times a year in bouts scheduled for 12 and 15 rounds like in the past he is bound to take a loss or 2 somewhere down the road.

    To put it into perspective since Usyk made his Heavyweight debut in 2019 hes only fought a grand total of 6 times in 5 years.

    Another comparison Holmes in 5 years as champion fought 16 times in 5 years.

    Tyson in just under 2 years fought 28 times including going 10 rounds on 4 occasions.

    Ali in a 3 year period from 64-67 fought in 10 championship fights fighting against 8 top 10 ranked fighters in just 3 years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2024
    kostya by ko, Noel857 and AdamT like this.