In the list of the best HWs ever Usyk will be able to get 8th maximum

It's not a bad point at all you're criticising fighters that have double and triple the amount of professional fights as Usyk for having "losses".

Of course they're more likely to have losses they fought way more often I mean that's common sense.

Usyk has had competitive fights vs Fury, Chisora, Breidis, hes not unbeatable.

 

How how does one rank Aj and Fury?
Most of the forum thinks they are rubbish, or at least eachothers fanbase

Truth be told I rank both very high and wins over the pair ranks highly for me. Usyk may have another win over Fury In December

I agree he doesn't have the body of work to threaten the big boys in the rankings but top 10 is definitely arguable.

 

Top 10 HW of the 80s = Tallest Dwarf.

There was Holmes, Spinks, Tyson. Everyone else was the Daniel Dubois of their era - alphabet title holders. I mean the the WBA title in the 80s might as well have been a toughman competition.

 

Dubois hasn't even won a legit title he was gifted a vacated belt.

Dubois is also certainly not as a good as a prime Pinklon Thomas, Tim Witherspoon, Mike Weaver, Tony Tucker, have a day off.....

As for toughman competition ? i don't remember anyone in the 80s fighting an MMA fighter making their pro debut and almost losing. And that was the supposed "Best Heavyweight of this era" at that time.

 

Well, no. It still has to come down to some kind of specific fighter who would beat him. I don't agree that there is some sort of universal law of averages that says that if a fighter has enough fights he losses. Marciano had 49 wins. Holmes got to 48.

 

And again, I don't agree with this logic. I think because of Holmes, and maybe a bit Klitschko, people started pushing the quantity narrative. Really, it comes down to who you beat more than that, and Uysk has bested a couple of the best super-heavies to do it.

 

All i'm trying to say is that i don't think those former great Heavyweights should be discredited for a few losses especially since they have so many more professional fights than Usyk.

It's hard to make a comparison because Usyk turned professional quite late due to his extensive Amateur career so he has less filler but he also hasn't fought that often. For example Usyk has had 22 professional fights in 11 years which really is a snail pace like activity.

But as you're well aware Heavyweights now are barely active it's a totally different era, Heavyweight's of yesteryear were so much more active so again as i said it's a tricky concept to try and make comparisons with different Heavyweight eras.

As i've said i don't think Usyk is a top 10 ATG Heavyweight he simply hasn't got enough of a resume.

But......if Usyk beat's Fury again and adds Parker to his resume then i think he would have a good argument to sneak into the top 10.

 

I am not saying it "discredits" them, but losses matter. They factor in. That is all I am saying.

 

That's fair enough i don't want to seem like i'm keeping this convo going for the sake of it..........

Honestly at first i thought you was trying to say "Well Usyk is undefeated and the others had losses" so that's why i was saying the difference in the amount of professional fights they had though was alot so that had to be taken into account.

But yeah that's all i have to say on the matter no hard feelings and i apologize if i seemed like i was arguing with you in anyway.

Judging by my posts i bet people think i dislike Usyk but that's not the case, i was elated when he beat Fury and their fight was one of the most enjoyable Heavyweight fights i've seen in sometime.

My issue is that i think people have gone a little bit overboard with Usyk.....don't get me wrong he's a great fighter infact he's an ATG. But i think people just need to calm down a little and let's wait another year or so and see how Usyk's career pans out.

 

I'm just saying it's a factor. Quantity of wins matter, quality of wins matter, losses matter, titles defenses matter, unifications matter, legitimacy of the wins matter, legitimacy of the losses matter...in a sense even the overall narrative of a fighter's career matters. To some, perceived head-to-head matters.

After Ali and Louis, it gets very subjective, very quickly.

Look, I've pointed this out, and I don't want to sound like a broken record, but it is very difficult to quantify Uysk. Most have settled on the narrative that he is not great at heavy, but he is elite pound for pound. In a way, this makes no more sense than saying he is elite at heavy. Pound for pound is a metric to measure a good little guy against a good big guy...Uysk is BIGGER than Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, etc. His opponents, even his cruiserweight opponents, are bigger than some of their best, and his elite heavyweight opponents DWARF most of the champions of the past and their best wins.

I think almost everyone agrees that he is great, but there is no simple way to pigeonhole his greatness as some are trying to do.

 

Yeah i'm not really going to get into that Cruiserweight/Heavyweight debate again as you've already debated that to death and have a thread for it in the classic forum.

Let's just say right now Usyk is the GOAT Cruiserweight a top 30-35 ATG and a top 20 Heavyweight.

It remains to be seen if Usyk's resume will become slightly worse or slightly better in the next 2 years or so.

But first things first winning the rematch against Fury and see where he goes from there, Usyk has talked about moving back down to Cruiserweight but that would be ridiculous. He earns far less money moving back down to Cruiserweight and there's certainly better fights at Heavyweight to add to his legacy.

 

I don't believe Fury will make it. There is too much time for him to self-destruct.

Hard to say where he goes after Fury. He says he wants cruiser...as you say, there is no money there. But if he stays at heavy beyond Fury, they are just going to make him fight Joshua III or Dubois II. I'd like Parker, but there isn't the money in Parker as in AJ or Dubois, so if we think money is the motivator, IBF reunification is where he lands.

There is just no great option after Fury.

Maybe he should retire. But I think he fights on one way or the other.

 

But you can't compare fury to Valuev. Fury is skill wise uncomparble with his size. There was never such a big man who could move and fight like him. Usyk beating fury is a certified top 10 atg heavy win imo

 

Certified ? Hell no not with context. We all know what happened, and now it's being brushed under the rug for obvious reasons