Ingemar Johansson vs. Francois Botha

A lot of them actually. But if we are talking about times when Botha wasn't losing to the guys like Sonny Bill Williams and Wawrzyk, I'm pretty sure Ingo would KO Ettienne with whom Botha had a draw. And in the same time I wouldn't give Botha a lot of chances against Floyd Patterson or Eddie Machen. Henry Copper would probably beat him too. He was definitely better than Ettienne

 

Of course, Botha was shot when he got beaten by Williams and Wawrzyk. But he wasn't against Ettienne. He was 33 y.o. only and scored his second best win in career (against Timo Hoffman) 3 fights after that. Plus Ettienne was never the same after hellacious beating with 8 knockdowns he took against Oquendo. I think Botha might have been closer to his best version than Ettienne to his one in their fight.

 

I am very surprised by the number of people picking Botha here.

They are not particularly close in class.

 

He would have beaten Moorer, and of course most of the people that Botha lost to in his comeback, for what little that is worth.

 

He would've beaten Moorer, heh, good one.
...
You're being serious?

 

Yes, he was a more dangerous puncher than old Foreman.

He woudl probably have butchered Moorer.

 

I wouldn't say that he's more dangerous, maybe more mobile, but he was NOT more dangerous. Johansson also would've gotten outboxed and ripped apart in the early rounds.

 

I would go as far as saying that he might have had a more dangerous right hand than Foreman had in his prime.

 

So, you would go as far as to lie?

 

I would not go as far as to lie.

However I would go as far as to point out that Sonny Liston hit Eddie Machen with everything except his ring stool, and couldn't put him away.

Joe Frazier did the same against a past prime Machen, with the same result.

Johansen simply blitzed him.

Yes Johansen was a very dangerous puncher.

Yes you probably need a better chin than Moorer had to beat him.

 

Machen was simply spoiling against Liston and Frazier, he was fully aware of what he was up against there, and adjusted accordingly- Whereas against Ingo, he likely thought little of the 20-0 Swede.

It's also clear that Patterson could beat Johansson just fine without obtaining a chin guard, so I think it's safe to say that you don't need a specific class of chin to beat ol' Ingemar when you could simply blitz him.

 

We can't exactly ignore the facts here.

He demolished a man that a number of murderous punchers, had failed to put a dent in.

Did Machen underestimate Johansen?

Perhaps, but this was his chance at a title shot.

He was not exactly going to be careless.

You don't necessarily need the best possible chin, but you do need a certain level to your game.

Botha doesn't have that level to his game, or even anything approaching it.

 

Whenever Botha threw his right hand, however he threw it, he stepped forward with his right foot and squared up like a baseball pitcher. He did that when Tyson stopped him with a right hand counter and he did it all night against Moorer and got chopped up with right hand counters.
If Inegmar had anything, it was a right hand.