How exactly does Tyson beat Ali...?

The quote I remember of him talking to George in the ring while Foreman is loading up those wrecking ball shots was something like:

“Is that all you got? They told me you could hit hard. Don’t disappoint me, George!”

Geez the size of that man’s heart (and cajones).

As for the mental game @SonnyListon> … most anyone who’s been around the sport will tell you when you get two guys together who are not physically mismatched (and even sometimes when you do), boxing is 90% mental.

Some innately understood the mental/psychological part of the game. Ali was one of them. Tyson may have understood the concept, but as far as applying it his only weapon was intimidation — which was based on him being physically superior. Buster Douglas wasn’t intimidated. Holyfield wasn’t. Most of the rest were, but I don’t think James Tillis nor Mitch Green nor Razor Ruddock were … but none of them had enough all-around physical game to actually beat Tyson (Tillis came closest).

Ali imo would be so far inside Tyson’s head that Mike would wilt. Ali would fill him with self-doubt. Much like Tyson, Sonny Liston was a bully and Ali had Liston convinced that he (Ali) was a crazy man and that gave Sonny pause.

I don’t know exactly what Ali’s tactics would be in the lead-up to the fight, but I think he’d turn Tyson to putty in his hands before the first bell.

 

I think many here would be shocked to see prime Ali knocked out by Tyson, but I certainly wouldn’t. Leaning back from a 35-year-old Liston with a bad shoulder is one thing. Leaning straight back from young Tyson’s speed is absolutely a hair in it every single time.

 

Patterson did not come in with a bad back, Ali gave him one by repeatedly knocking Floyd's head up and back, up and back, up and back through the first several rounds.

I just reviewed Ali-Patterson I in live sound. Floyd actually did better than Mike would have. Patterson repeatedly tried to step back and sucker Muhammad into getting countered, but Ali was having none of it. Even when Muhammad had his back against the ropes, Floyd stepped back. Tyson never would've done this, playing into the GOAT's hands even more.

The absolute first indicator something might be wrong with Patterson's back might be the way he walks side to side in returning to his corner after round five. Still, it takes 85 shots in round six to briefly drop Floyd to a knee in that stanza.

At the end of seven rounds is when Patterson initially stands in his corner, then later stands up so he can be picked up and jostled up and down before round eight.

What Ali-Patterson I truly conveys is the obscene difference in height and reach between Tyson and the hyper and hyper mobile Ali of 1965.

Forget how much more solidly built Tyson was than Floyd, and consider the fact that Mike was a few inches shorter than Patterson with the same reach.

No, Tyson doesn't finish with a bad back, but that means Ali doesn't go for the kill with 100 punches in round six either.

Floyd was still trying in round 12 though, and protested Harry Kessler's stoppage. Well before the final bell, Mike Tyson would not be protesting the stoppage, regardless of whether or not he hits the deck at some point. He'd realize he was far too behind to win on the cards, too far away to somehow produce a stoppage win, and very far short of anything resembling the necessary firepower to somehow halt the GOAT if he did somehow manage to connect solidly.

Horrid mismatch between peak Ali and any version of Tyson.

 

This old chestnut. I haven't seen if dredged up since Mendoza was still here.

 

I would not call Fraziers punches short… Louis threw short punches.

 

Yeah, Frazier's left eye was badly swollen and Ali's vision was completely impaired. Muhammad made this claim after their careers were over while he could still speak clearly, but in the ring with Don Dunphy after the bout while resting on a knee and turning to shake Frazier's hand, he said he had doubts back in round ten.

Carlos Padilla escorted Joe back to his corner at the end of round 14, a round he'd been getting knocked backwards in. Years later, Padilla said he'd have given Frazier about 45 seconds to rally before calling a halt. Eddie Futch spared him that, and has been proved completely right in telling Joe, "No one will ever forget what we did here today!" Over 35 years later, Joe Frazier died knowing that for an absolute fact. (He also lived long enough to agree with friend Larry Holmes that neither had any idea who the Heavyweight Champion was anymore, nor that they even cared. They were on top when it truly mattered to everybody, when HW Championship boxing was still Front Page on all the newspapers. That can never happen again.)

 

And this can be critical. It was pivotal in Joe Frazier-Jerry Quarry II.

 

Frazier's right could be extremely short, but it wasn't his bread and butter of course. Jerry Quarry threw short punches, and in fact shorter hooks than Joe.

 

Yeah... I think that Tyson would be a much easier matchup for Ali than Frazier ever was, and the reach factor just adds on to it.

 

In late 1967 to a hypothetical 1969, I think it would've been an extremely hectic bout for a never exiled GOAT and frustrating for Smokin' Joe, but Frazier would never stop coming on and there would definitely be rematches. The big difference during the late 1960's is that Ali would've continued being evasive rather than relying on toughness.

Norton remains the guy most likely to drop Ali from the undefeated ranks even if Muhammad had his dental needs taken care of, because Ken had the height, reach and long overhand right necessary to get to Muhammad in a first time paring. (For their second match, Ali was ducking that overhand right, and not attempting any leans.)

 

Mike's punches were short enough that I don't see Ali leaning from them. In fact, because the GOAT would be so far away, I don't think Tyson would be pulling the trigger that much.

 

You can stop the fight, but you can't stop Joe Frazier. I definitely think that Frazier would've given even the sixties' Ali a real tough match if they were to ever meet, but I think that nine times out of ten, I'd bet on the Louisville Lip to take it. And yeah, that huge difference between the young champion Ali and the older one was resilience, craftiness, and willpower.

I also agree with you about Norton being the matchup that stays much more troubling for the younger Muhammad- Kenny might have even more success with the additional three rounds in a potential title shot to really lay it on Ali.

 

Underselling Tyson’s speed getting in & under.

 

Hard to see Tyson beating him. Really the only way is, he's got to ko Ali.
And whilst Tyson has the power and speed to ko a lot of guys, well this is Ali we're talking about.