Why didn’t Holmes ever unify?

COETZEE'S FIRST TITLE DEFENSE SHOT DOWN
Michael Katz on Boxing
Published: October 18, 1984

Another fight has gone down. Gerrie Coetzee's first defense of the World Boxing Association heavyweight title, against unbeaten David Bey, appeared headed for HBO, the pay cable television network, on Dec. 7. HBO was more interested in showing Thomas Hearns defending the World Boxing Council junior middleweight title against undefeated John (the Beast) Mugabi of Uganda. But because Emanuel Steward, Hearns's manager, could or would not name the mysterious backers for that overpriced fight, HBO opted instead for the ''safer'' Coetzee-Bey package from Don King.

''Whatever else you can say about Don King, when he says a fight will happen, it happens,'' explained Bob Greenway, HBO's director of sports programming.

Not this time. King had originally sold the promotional rights for the Coetzee fight to South African interests, who were going to hold it in the champion's home country. When HBO became interested, King bought the fight back and planned it for the United States (Las Vegas, Nev., and Buffalo were the leading contenders).

But without the South African money, Coetzee was told that his purse would be cut from about $1.4 million to $750,000.

Coetzee, who has not fought since upsetting Michael Dokes for the title 13 months ago, said no, thank you.

 

KING ANGERS ASHE ON SOUTH AFRICA DEAL
MICHAEL KATZ ON BOXING
Published: November 8, 1984

Don King, one of the charter signatories when Artists and Athletes Against Apartheid was formed two years ago, has embarrassed the group by sending a heavyweight championship bout to Bophuthatswana, Arthur Ashe, one of the group's co-chairmen, said today.

On Dec. 1, Gerrie Coetzee of South Africa is scheduled to make his first defense of the World Boxing Association title against Greg Page, a black American who is coming off two losses.

King, a black promoter who used to call his main rival, Bob Arum, the ''Apostle of Apartheid'' for taking bouts to South Africa, had promotional agreements with both Coetzee and Page and sold them to Sol Kerzner of South Africa for more than $1 million.

Coetzee will reportedly earn $1.5 million for the fight and Page $500,000. The bout will be held in Sun City, Bophuthatswana, one of the homelands set up by the South African Government for blacks but recognized by no other country as independent.

Ashe said King was ''the most influential signatory to our position, since boxers are the most likely athletes to be invited to South Africa, boxers and tennis players.''

''We've been very successful in convincing black athletes and entertainers not to go down there,'' said Ashe. ''As far as I know, Page is the only one who slipped through in the last 12 months.''

After a ''lengthy conversation'' with the promoter on Tuesday, Ashe said he and Randall Robinson, executive director of Trans-Africa, a lobbying group also opposed to apartheid, were ''fairly well convinced that without Don King, Greg Page wouldn't have fought in South Africa.''

Ashe said that there was a possibility King would be dropped from the group and that the ''likely expulsion'' would probably take place within a week.

King, who paid the fees to have the fight sanctioned by the W.B.A., said, ''I'm against apartheid today, and I was against apartheid yesterday.''

''I'm not going to South Africa,'' he said. ''All I did was sell my rights.''

''Same thing,'' said Franklin Williams, the president of the Phelps- Stokes Fund in New York, an educational foundation specializing in African countries. He is a leading anti- apartheid activist.

''I think King should be ashamed of himself,'' said Larry Holmes, who is fighting for King here Friday against James (Bonecrusher) Smith. ''He's always talking about his principles. It seems he sold 'em. If a man's got principles, you can't buy 'em.''

But one of King's men, the undefeated heavyweight contender David Bey, was praised by Ashe for refusing to fight in South Africa. Bey, who is managed by King's son Carl, said the Kings had suggested he not go. Don King said he had given the same advice to Page, who in effect manages himself.

Ashe said he and Harry Belafonte, the singer who is the other co-chairman of Artists and Athletes, had met Bey and Carl King at a New York dinner two weeks ago and were pleased that the fighter, whose last victory was over Page, had already turned down the trip.

''He took cognizance of the fact that Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes and Sugar Ray Leonard all were offered a lot of money to go to South Africa and refused on principle,'' said Ashe. ''He said that was pretty nice company.''

Bey, speaking from his home in Philadelphia, said the ''apartheid thing'' prevented him from going.

He said it hurt to pass up a $650,000 purse, ''not counting $100,000 expenses, right up front.''

''There goes that house and that BMW 673 I wanted,'' he said. ''But maybe I'll make more money now that I didn't go. I'm going to be a great champion, like Larry Holmes was.''

''I'm proud of him,'' said Holmes. ''He'll fight me one of these days.''

The W.B.A. rules say Coetzee must defend against the ''leading available contender.'' But No. 1 is Holmes, who is defending his International Boxing Federation title here Friday. No. 2, Mike Weaver, is on the undercard, and King has signed him to fight the World Boxing Council champion, Pinklon Thomas. Bey is No. 3, followed by Michael Dokes, also managed by Carl King, who sent a letter to the W.B.A. passing up the match. Page is No. 6, leaving only No. 5, Trevor Berbick, to complain.

King had signed Berbick to a contract in August and put him on Friday's undercard against Randall (Tex) Cobb for $25,000. Berbick has already received the money, but now may pull out, thinking he was hoodwinked out of the Coetzee fight. James (Buster) Douglas has been brought in as a replacement, in case.

 

Money Motivates Holmes to Fight
By MICHAEL KATZ

Some time ago, Larry Holmes asked his wife, Diane, about the large jar of coins he discovered in the kitchen of their mansion in Easton, Pa.

''For a rainy day,'' she explained.

Holmes, the wealthiest boxer this side of Sugar Ray Leonard, chuckles when he tells the story. But a smile is not his umbrella.

He uses bigger jars, called trust funds, to guard his family's future and though he has earned perhaps more than $20 million as the heavyweight champion of the world, he does not want to break into any of those jars. After all, Holmes is on a first-name basis with the Internal Revenue Service.

This pretty much explains why Holmes, who marked his 35th birthday last Saturday, is boxing for the first time since knocking out Marvis Frazier in one round a year ago.

He defends his title, now sanctioned by the International Boxing Federation, Friday night against James (Bonecrusher) Smith.

But for the bout in an outdoor arena at the Riviera Hotel, which will be televised nationally by Home Box Office (10 P.M. New York time), Holmes will earn another $1.2 million or so. That, and another fight, which he hopes can be arranged for February, perhaps against Michael Spinks, will help pay a tax bill of $1.9 million.

''I had made up my mind, frankly, to quit after the Marvis Frazier fight,'' Holmes said. ''But them people kept following me around for three months waving $15 million in my face. When they gave me three and a half down, I knew it was real.''

The money, and the taxes on it, was real, but not the proposed fight with Gerrie Coetzee of South Africa, the World Boxing Association champion, for which Holmes received the nonrefundable downpayment.

''All I do with my money is put it in my kids' trust funds,'' said Holmes. ''Now I've got to pay taxes on it. So why take money out when I can take two fights to pay it?

''Why do you think I'm fighting. The glory? The agony of defeat? You show me a man says he ain't fighting for money, I'll show you a fool.''

Some people think, just because Holmes has said so in the past, that his goal is to expand his current record of 45-0 to 50-0 and better Rocky Marciano's 49-0.

''If I want to break the record,'' he told a reporter from England, ''I'll go over to England and break it in one week.''

He said that, at age 35, he did not feel any different and added that Muhammad Ali, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ken Norton and Archie Moore fought well at an advanced age.

But there often is a heavy toll to pay for fighting too long. What about Ali? Holmes was asked.

''I got to say it,'' he replied, ''like everybody else, 'It ain't gonna happen to me.' Ali, do you see me do what he did in the gym, letting people beat him up?''

James Broad, who knocked out Smith in the challenger's first pro fight three years ago and who worked with Holmes as a sparring partner, said the champ was better than ever.

''He's starting to block punches way out here now,'' said Broad, holding his hands well out in front of him, ''even before you start them. I don't see Larry getting beat by anybody in the top five in the next three years.''

Richie Giachetti, the champion's former trainer, back in camp as an adviser, said the year layoff ''did him good.''

''You see how he acts now before a crowd,'' said Giachetti. ''It's pumped him up. He missed the ring.''

The 6-foot-3-inch Holmes weighed in Thursday at 221 1/2 pounds. The 6-4 challenger weighed 227. Working between them will be Referee Davey Pearl, who is 5-4 1/2 and 145 pounds.

 

My thoughts exactly. No one seriously considered Dokes, Coetzee etc as the actual Heavyweight Champion.
Doesn’t excuse the post Tim avoidance of risk, but really Larry had no need to unify from a who’s the real champion point of view. For example, when the IBF came along and bestowed their belt on Holmes, MMH, etc those fighters validated the organizations belts, not the other way around.

 

Great intelligent post

 

Because "Low Risk Larry" didn't see the need to?

While I can make fun of Holmes' lame attempts to dredge up the weakest and barely breathing challengers possible all day long, he was a better businessman than any heavyweight champion in recent memory and wasn't taking any high risk fights unless the financials made the risk worth his while.

From reading his book, it seems that Holmes was very, very aware that he was never intended to get the title and was getting the opposite of a promotional push from Don King. As a result, Holmes developed a very smart approach to how he defended his title and protected his financial future with the belt. I thought his title reign was ridiculously weak and conflict avoidant (Compare Weaver's title opponents in three years- Undefeated Tate/Undefeated Tillis/Dangerous Coetzee/Undefeated Dokes twice- verses Holmes opponents), but i wholeheartedly believe Holmes was personally not afraid of anyone in the ring and that his choices were based on a pragmatic approach to keeping the title and making the most bank for his family and future.

If they would have wrote a big enough check, Larry would have fought anyone, anywhere without flinching. No check, no fight, and Larry would squeeze in a Ron Stander defense if he could sell the networks on it for a nice safe payday. Really, I don't blame him.

 

I'm a Holmes fan and I've often said I believe Holmes took what he perceived as easier defenses in the last few years of his career.

The obvious candidates is not fighting Greg Page when he was his mandatory and deserved a shot. Also not fighting Pinklon Thomas between 84-85 when he was certainly more deserving than Williams, Bonecrusher, who had less than 20 professional fights.

But in fairness to Holmes he did actually try and make the Coetzee fight but there was issues that was out of his hands and in the end it didn't get made not Holmes's fault.

I've also heard from fans who were apart of that era that with the sanctioning bodies that it was hard during that time to make WBA, WBC, etc champions to fight eachother although i don't know how true that is though because I wasn't born then.

Overall Holmes's reign was fine for the first 4 years or so its after the Witherspoon scare when Holmes then avoided Page that Holmes's reign has some serious question mark's surrounding it.

But saying all that I don't think beating Page really does much for his legacy. But a win over Thomas who was undefeated for 7 years I think that would've been a top 5 win for Holmes.

 

@Dubblechin do you by any chance know if there were ever plans of Holmes vs Tate fight while Tate was the WBA title holder?

 

Holmes (rightfully IMO) balked at fighting Page b/c he was inexplicably offered less $ to fight him than he was for Frazier.

The demand for Holmes to fight Page was always BS anyway, IMO - Page got his @$$ kicked by Berbick in his most high profile fight (Holmes-Cooney undercard), then a year later he's suddenly a "fight him or else"-type mandatory? This was just a case of a corrupt sanctioning body trying to publicly flex its muscles, just like when it refused to acknowledge the Frazier defense as being a title fight.

 

Holmes would fight anyone 1978-1983. I firmly believe this. There was also no heavyweight in the world who beats him during these years

by 1984-85 when he hit 35 years old, he became selective and dodged people because he paid his dues and felt he was entitled to soft opponents to break Marciano’s record

 

I agree that Page losing to Berbick he did lose some of the hype but Page did rebound well with wins over Tillis, Snipes, he was certainly more deserving than most of the other opposition Holmes fought after.

The reason it don't sit right with me is because Holmes fought two very undeserving opponents instead of Page. You can overlook Holmes not fighting Page if he fought the likes of Dokes, Thomas, Witherspoon, rematch, etc. But instead he fought Marvis Frazier, Scott Frank, two fighters who were not top 10 Heavyweights and quite frankly should never of been fighting for a world title.

You can't fight everyone of course but I honestly believe after the Witherspoon fight Holmes was definitely more selective in his opponents. And wasn't willing to fight who he perceived as dangerous opponents and Holmes admitted that himself.

 

No. John Tate was only WBA champion for five months.

Tate lost in his first defense. Arum's plan for Tate was for "Big" John to fight the comebacking Muhammad Ali. Magazines at the time reported they were scheduled to fight in Brazil in the late summer/early fall of 1980, after the Tate-Weaver fight.

Tate had no plans to unify.

The Holmes-John Tate fight that Larry briefly mentioned in the articles I posted referred to an offer he had to fight the comebacking John Tate.

By 1983, Tate had won nine fights since the loss to Berbick and briefly re-entered the WBA top 10. But Tate went off the rails again. He started snorting cocaine in 1983 to help with his "sinus headaches," got addicted and didn't fight for nearly three years. https://boxingnewsonline.net/the-rise-and-fall-of-john-tate/

When Holmes-Coetzee fell apart in 1984, Holmes ended up opting for Bonecrusher after Smith knocked out Frank Bruno.

John Tate's entire moment in the title picture was very brief. It basically lasted a little over a year - from the spring of 1979 (when he beat Bobick on ABC to get into the WBA's four-man tournament) to the spring/summer of June 1980 (when he was knocked out by Weaver and Berbick three months apart).

 

Styles make fights and Holmes, or his management avoided certain type fighters. Holmes had a fantastic jab decent movement, but he missed guy like Page, Dokes, Tate, Coetzee, Thomas, and never rematched the big underdogs that gave him disputed wins or tough battles such as Weaver (who improved and won a title) 15 & 16 fight Witherspoon and Williams.

I think Holmes had issues with good right-hand punchers because he was Dropped hard by big underdog Snipes and Shavers and beaten by Mike Spinks in Mikes 1st fight as a heavyweight and Tyson destroyed him with right hands.

Holmes was talented, had a lot of heart and great jab but missed too many in his era and robbed himself of some very marketable money fights in his era. He gave up a title not to fight Page. IMO Holmes was better overall than any of those guys he did not fight but could he have lost to any of them? Absolutely!!!

 

Remarkable that the thread has swung back to those in denial. The reverberations of what Holmes did by SPLITTING the title further and giving the IBF credibility are still being felt today. Without Holmes, the IBF is a minor federation like the IBO, and so is the WBO for that matter.

And the comment about "unifications not being big..." Just wow!. Like there hadn't been unification fights between the WBA, originally the NBA, the WBC, the New York State Athletic commission, and occasionally other linages from the press, the British, etc. since Queensbury rules went into style.

The level of denial in this forum is astonishing.

 

He took the Frazier fight b/c he was offered one of the best paydays of his career up to that point (2nd only to Cooney, possibly). If someone like Page can't drum up enough public support for his challenge to be worth at least as much as someone like Frazier, then I have no problem w/ Holmes telling the sanctioning body to take a walk.

Besides, after Holmes discarded his title, he signed for a unification fight w/ Coetzee, who would've been perceived (at least at that time) as being no less of a scalp than Page if that fight had gone off as scheduled.