Jerry Quarry did spar w George Foreman

Ken Norton also severely criticized Earnie for lifting weights during Shavers-Tiger Williams. Kenny, like Mike Weaver, Leroy Caldwell and certain other muscular heavyweights made it clear that their physiques were genetic gifts, not the result of bodybuilding and weight training. Norton expressed how weights could cause a boxer to tighten up.

Jumbo Cummings did develop a muscular physique through weight training in prison, and he nearly one punched Frank Bruno out at the end of their opening round. If Bruno had gone down, he definitely would not have been able to beat the count.

Rocky Marciano and George Chuvalo were really into weight training and bodybuilding early on.

Chuvalo actually forced Foreman and Frazier to utilize angles on him. (Frazier later outmaneuvered Cummings himself with quick side stepping. Beating Joe wasn't simply a matter of backing him up, as Bonavena and Stander also discovered, although Ringo would've won Frazier I on a ten point must system or in a location where forward aggression wasn't as important as it was in New York.)

Rex Layne bet the rent on being able to shove Marciano back and simply wasn't able to do it. (Also, the Rock's hand speed was ridiculously superior to Layne's, as is obvious on the footage.)

I have the 1957 Marciano/Goldman book on boxing and bodybuilding, as did Chuvalo, although George was heavily into bodybuilding before even becoming an amateur boxer. (There is a photograph of him flexing his muscles for the camera, and he looks huge. He'd have been a ruinous lineman in the CFL.)

The Rock, a client of Charles Atlas, inherited ridiculous physical strength through his mother, and was obsessed with being the strongest kid in the neighborhood, obsessively acquiring any and all information he could find about strength training. (He'd be embarrassed whenever caught working out.) He anchored the center on offense and defense for the Brockton High gridiron squad, and couldn't be budged from his position.

 

Excellent information.

I also recall reading that after successive losses to Bob Cleroux via SD and to Joe Erskine via DQ, George became despondent and took some time off from the ring and that he solely indulged lifting weights during his hiatus.

There’s a clip on YouTube of an older Chuvalo doing some weight work with former am boxer and former ref Ron Lipton - so it seems it was something George maintained in some measure into and beyond retirement.

Of course, Joe Bugner also lifted as a body builder prior to embarking on his boxing career. I think the earlier weight work was somewhat reflected by his physique.

 

I forgot to add that post career, Norton did indulge in lifting, fully acknowledging same.

Ken also apparently lamented not having started serious weight training earlier - and that includes during his actual career.

If what I read was correct, it seems that Ken changed his tune on lifting later in the piece.

I believe that Norton didn’t seriously lift during his career - though well muscled and, just as importantly, well defined, he didn’t have the tell tale muscle volume of a lifter - just imo.

 

Yeah, my father and I met Chuvalo and saw George speak. Very eloquent, and obviously in marvelous physical condition. He was like Jack Sharkey (daily three mile jogs to support his fly fisherman's hiking lifestyle, and we can see his excellent and rapid athletic movements in Moore-Durelle I & II), Carlos Ortiz, Floyd Patterson and others who maintained superb fitness after retiring from competition.

 

This is a bit of a segue but humor me … how good is Hard Luck, the 2011 biography of Jerry Quarry?

 

It is notable that Foreman once referred to Quarry as, "the man who should have been champ."

Still, I would pick George.

 

I’m on record as saying that prime champion young George vs. Quarry would not have been fun for Quarry because by 1973 Quarry was slipping and the macho sparring (generally sans headgear if I’m not mistaken) that everyone is raving about and the Rocky Balboa lead with your head defense were catching up with him.

Serious question for the board, maybe grist for its own thread … did Quarry peak not as a fan favorite but as a serious championship contender in the first round against Frazier in NYC in 1969?

 

Yes. I’m of the opinion that Quarry would’ve been a live underdog against the Foreman of a few years later who demolished Frazier & Norton.

 

From what I understand, it took a while for sports science to figure out the best way to incorporate weight lifting into combat sports in an effective way to avoid a loss in stamina/speed/flexibility, etc. It took a while because too much lifting and/or focusing too much on bulking can worsen those stats and make a fighter gas quickly and become a big sitting duck.

Could it be that because Shavers wasn't working with experts who could guide him along properly, that's why he often had stamina issues?

 

Yes, I believe round one of Frazier-JQ I was indeed Jerry's career peak stanza, and that their first bout may also have been Joe's peak match, not Ellis I or the FOTC. JQ was coming off the AP reported 12 round shutout of a streaking Buster Mathis, while Frazier had crushed Ramos and Ziggy in a way which should've completely dispelled the notion he was a slow starter.

Jerry tore into Joe the way he successfully had Buster for 12 rounds, but Frazier was a top five ATG HW on this occasion, and only a peak Ali definitely would've beaten him. (Foreman? I think, in this physical condition, Frazier would've been able to recover as he did in Bonavena I, then drown George in deep water. Even if Foreman does win a first time bout, Joe would adapt for the rematch. This wouldn't have been a drained and diminished post FOTC Frazier.)

 

No, Earnie had arms like a pair of 50 pound clubs, and lacked the physical template for stamina. He did prepare for the distance in Clark I, Tiger Williams, Ali and Holmes I & II. He retained his punch as long as a bout continued, but try lightly tapping a speed bag while holding 25 pound dumbbells, or punching a heavy bag with 50 pound weighted gloves.

My attitude towards strength training in boxing favors leveraged whole body movements like hoisting bales of hay (as the Baer brothers, Shavers and Frazier grew up doing on farms) over muscle isolation. Both Earnie and I also chopped, split and sawed firewood. For functional boxing related strength, there's no comparison. I'll take the tensile strength and muscular endurance wood cutting imparts over weight training any day of the week, and would definitely hire a competitive lumberjack for strength training in boxing.

Wood chopping aside, weight training does have useful applications in boxing, but there are other modes of resistance training which are traditional, because they work.

Ignore the PED era. Michael Spinks is where it's at. He was clean (his physique never changed, whether he was 170 for David Sears, 212 for Tyson, or retired). Lots of plyometrics and short bursts of high intensity. Lots of wind sprinting. The Jinx was known for excellent conditioning and was never remotely close to gassing. Reporters observed that Michael actually seemed to be a little stronger in the clinches than Holmes (who in turn was able to muscle around Cooney, although Gerry was known to be deficient in physical strength).

 

I agree with everything you said here, just I heard that many wannabe boxers sustained very nasty back and hands injuries while chopping woods because it tires your hands and bones.
I dunno if it is true but that was the reason I decided maybe not to train with sledgehammer and tire.