The Great Heavyweight Debate: Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Louis - Who's the HW GOAT?

Lots of great fighters have fantastic names on their CV…a good number of them more than Ali. Nobody has twelve years & twenty-five straight title defenses. Nobody’s been that consistent at the top. Not ever. It’s an under-valued metric because it’s harder to digest than the big names.

 

I think Louis would have a harder time with some of Ali's challengers than vice versa.
For me, the only problematical one on Joe's resume is Walcott .
Louis v Liston ,Foreman,Frazier,are tough ask's.

 

Ali made him quit twice, so... Nahh.

 

Liston was obviously playing with Ali's mind in both accounts. Everything was about to turn Sonny side up before Liston had the injury...
Don't even get me started on prime Liston, he would've chewed up Ali and spit him out in one!

 

Many of these decision wins, and especially the close ones, start for Ali in his mid- to late 30's. Louis's wins are to a large degree also decisions at this age. Only the one over Walcott was controversial and he settled that one with a KO, yes, but I don't think he met as many top 5 fighters as Ali did in the final years of his career.

If we're looking at their record at age 34-37 Louis has one non-controversial win over a top 5 opponent and Ali has no clear one. So, yes, you can certainly argue that Louis had the better final stretch. The question is how much emphasis you put on the part of a fighter's career where he is way past his best, though. I personally don't put much.

And before Manilla, Ali only had two close decision wins and none of them were controversial. You could say the same for Louis with his wins over Farr and Godoy. So not much of a difference in this regard really.

 

It’s too tricky to analyse trying to age Louis to the equivalent point in his career that Ali was for all those wins but I’ll say I’d give Louis at least as good odds to win those fights as I would Ali to go twelve & twenty-five. The Walcott fights would be happening in that case for Ali around the time he was battling Young & Spinks. That’s no better for him than Foreman is for an ageing Louis.

 

The answer is Tua, you're welcome

 

LOL.

 

The Walcott battles were happening 10 years into Joe's championship reign. 10 years into Ali's reign he's in there with Foreman and still short of Thrilla. They were 13 years into Joe's pro career. 13 years into Ali's career he hasn't rematched Frazier yet.

 

I get your point but Louis may have not beat Liston for the title, Frazier might have split/ended his reign etc. Foreman would have been a good chance of bumping him off as well.

Where do you rate Holmes and Wlad? Wlad had about 18 defenses in his second reign. If one values numbers over beating ATG's these two had numbers.

 

Jack Johnson.
[url]https://boxrec.com/en/box-am/1134232[/url]

 

This is what I meant by tricky. I would’ve counted from the time Ali became champ in 1964.

 

That’s all true but Ali wasn’t favourite to beat Liston or Foreman. Had he never fought them we’d all be saying he would’ve lost those fights, so Louis can only beat the best, & he did that better than anyone. Again I’d firmly argue I’d rather be tasked with beating Foreman or Liston on one night than going twelve years through Louis’ competition, but the latter metric doesn’t sizzle or catch the eye like Ali’s wins. I don’t think that translates to it being less impressive, though.

 

Good question regarding Holmes & Klitschko. I haven’t done a list in years but Holmes would be around #8 & Klitschko perhaps 12-ish.

 

Especially a young Ali.