How exactly does Tyson beat Ali...?

Prime Tyson beats everyone that laced a pair of gloves on

 

Liston was in his early 40's when he fought Ali. He went into their first fight carrying a shoulder injury and barely trained. Took a dive in the second.
Foreman punched himself out. And he never landed any clean bombs to the head.

 

They were heavier, which helps a lot, and they were more aware of their hitabillity and ready to withstand the potential punches.

 

U just lost all credibility

 

Prime Tyson was a FORCE--would never argue that point. But the Muhammad Ali of 1964-67 vintage would be just too fast and well conditioned for him. Tyson would be giving up 7 inches in reach!! Ali would use that reach advantage to bust that jab in his face continuously while landing punishing combinations. Ali would also be on his toes non-stop!! Eventually Tyson gets fatigued and really starts to wear down around the 8th-9th round and Ali would finish him with a late stoppage.

I was a big Tyson fan back in the day-thought he was the most dynamic HW of his era. But I just don't ever see him beating Ali in his glory years!

PS--I can also imagine the pre fight psychological war Ali would wage--he'd get into Tyson's head so badly it would almost be painful to witness LOL!!

 

I disagree. I have at least 5 or 6 boxers that beat any version of Ali.

That's irrelevant. Tyson had a reach disadvantage going against pretty much everyone. He used that to his advantage. He'll dip under Ali's jab and counter.

He'll still mess up once, and when he does, he's dead meat.

A fully focused prime Tyson was properly prepared to go the distance, he doesn't get fatigued.
Ali ain't finishing him off in a million years.

No he wouldn't. This is a stupid myth. Ali got into the head of very few boxers.

 

DANG!! (Are you president of Mike Tyson's fan club ROTFLMAO??!!) You are DIGGING YOUR HEELS IN on this one!!

I offer you Tyson's OWN WORDS regarding Muhammad Ali!

“I always like to think I'm a bad motherf**ker. A vicious motherf**ker. I don't give a f**k, but that's the part where he, Ali, overshines me, because I can't understand a man that's willing to die for this. I talked the sh*t, but he's the real deal. Ali is a giant. There's no way other fighters can match him. He'd die for this sh*t. I'm not going to die for this. That's real talk. Ali is a savage, he's an animal. He's a different breed of person. He's not like us."

 

Tyson has always loved and respected Ali. This means nothing.
Manilla contradicts the fact that Ali was ready to die in the ring, but for the sake of the argument, let's assume it's true. It still means nothing if the opponent he faces is better than him.
Tyson, Lewis, the K brothers, Fury, Usyk, Holyfield - they all beat Ali.

 

"Tyson, Lewis, the K brothers, Fury, Usyk, Holyfield - they all beat Ali." (White Bomber)

My Classic Boxing Forum colleagues--would love to hear your thoughts regarding the above statement!

Personally, I think it's a case of a totally out of control fanboy man-crush gone insanely delusional (ESPECIALLY with regards to Ali at his 1967 peak) but curious to hear other responses!

 

Tyson didn't either. It wasn't the pressure of the fight that got to him, it was Holyfield's headbutting that was frustrating him.
And that was not a prime Tyson.

Completely wrong. First of all, that was not in the ring. Second of all, Green was trying to escalate and thus endangered Tyson, it was logical he was gonna defend himself.

That's meaningless cause it did not affect his boxing, he still won that fight.

1. That was a washed up Tyson.
2. It did not happen cause Lewis got under his skin or something, Tyson was simply messed up during that point of his life.
3. It's not like he went for Lewis's foot. They got in a general brawl, people jumped between them, and when Tyson slipped on the floor, that's when it happened.

Good. King deserved that. It has nothing to do with being taunted or in a boxing match.

No he wouldn't. Tyson knows what Ali is all about, he'd be indifferent.

WRONG.
Douglas was never champ and was hungry. He also promised his mother on her death bed that he'd win, so he trained harder than ever.
His mother's loss fueled him.
On the other hand, Tyson was damaged goods in 1990.
Upon taking complete control of Tyson's career, Don King fired everyone who had essentially worked with Tyson from the time he was a teenager, including his trainer, cornerman, and manager. Bill Cayton, Kevin Rooney and everyone else was either terminated or had died by that point. Hired in their stead, were three obscure personalities named Rory Holloway, Aran Snowel, and Jay Bright. These were the men who worked with Tyson for some 18 months following the dissolving of the original team Tyson.
In the meantime, Mike had gone through several episodes of exercising erratic behavior:
- he had since been divorced by Robin Givens, and during the whole process, had made death threats to her and her mother;
- he had been involved in a car accident (allegedly called a suicide attempt ) where he was injured-postponing the Frank Bruno fight, which had an original date of October 10, 1988;
- he had been in a fist fight with ex-opponent Mitch Green which left Green's face a bloody mess, and Tyson's hand temporarily injured;
- he performed in subpar fashion against Frank Bruno;
- he would lose yet another family member, as his sister Denise Tyson would die tragically in her late 20's.
With his list of blood relatives dwindling, his former team dispatched, his life going to pieces, and working with incompetent management for over a year, Tyson entered the ring against James Douglas on February 12th 1990.
Tyson spent the weeks prior to the fight staying out late and rendezvouing with the local escort services. Additionally, he was struggling during training sessions, and at one point was dropped by Greg Page in a sparring session.
During the fight with Buster, Tyson was rarely making an effort to close the sizable gap against the much taller Douglas, whereas against other tall opponents with reasonable jabs, such as Tucker, Holmes, Tubbs, and Biggs, Tyson had slipped the jab and followed up with a barrage of combinations coming in. We saw little or nothing of this against Douglas.
Following the match, boxing legends, Gil Clancy and Angelo Dundee were interviewed on HBO. Both agreed that the corner work in that fight was some of the most unprofessional that either man had seen in quite some time. Snowel was using a dissolved bag of water to try and reduce Tyson's swelling over his eyes, while calmly giving him ambiguous advice with no real instruction " Mike your not closing the gap." All the while, Tyson sat with his head down during every intermission between rounds. There was clearly no interest here...
CONCLUSION: Was Mike Tyson the same fighter who had thoroughly flattened the division between 1986-1989 ? Absolutely not. He was by this point, the product of an unstable life outside of the ring, as well as a cash cow who was poorly managed. Ad on his immaturity and lack of guidance, and frankly, I think any decent challenger in the 1990 top 10 would have had a good chance of doing to him what Douglas did.

You either didn't read properly or did not understand what I was saying.
Tyson ain't just gonna throw body shots like Foreman did, he'll mix those up with head shots. And Tyson's precision/accuracy is far far superior to that of Foreman.

They only took a few, none of them stood there like idiots (the way Ali did in 74) just letting Tyson pound on them.

Probably not, I agree. I was just pointing out he's cooked if he does.

Yes, but that doesn't negate the fact that Frazier was blind in one eye. Ali should never be hit by a 1 armed half blind guy.

Tyson does not need them, he'd fight at his own pace, Frazier wasted too much energy.

Nope. Tyson never came from behind cause he was too good to be behind in his prime. He won't be behind Ali either, so he doesn't need to come from behind.

Do you think Tyson's opponents in his prime just entered the ring and did not want to win ?!? It's not like they did not try to hurt him.

Yes.

Both were at the end of their prime, and those versions were still far better than Norton, Foreman or 73-75 Frazier.

I disagree about the pace, and it doesn't matter anyway, it won't be a 15 round fight.

Tyson doesn't need a 100 % KO ratio. And he didn't get it cause some of the top guys he faced in his prime just tried to survive, and they had way better fundamentals than Ali.

 

Due respect WB but the statement above is flatly wrong and in complete contradiction of the unlimited commitment that Ali materially displayed in the rubber match against Joe.

 

Literally none of this has anything to do with the point I was making.

 

I’d be more interested in hearing what Ali’s strategy is proposed to be? Tyson’s entire game was torching guys who used there jab to play keep away.
Are people using Douglas as an insert for Ali? I haven’t read the thread, They didn’t fight anything alike and Douglas’s plan wasn’t to stick and move, not at all. People here have seen FOTC thousands of times… at least I get that impression can we agree Frazier was easier to hit?
Especially with the right, that is because of how he hung his weight to load his hook - so we have a one handed fighter landing very obvious left hooks at will - everyone knew Frazier’s game and how did Ali overcome it with his “genius boxing IQ”?
He didn’t convincingly using his boxing talents he adapted by illegally clinching him to death in fight 2 after Foreman got JF while he was arguably shot lol it was famously all attrition in 1 and 3.
Ali won’t be hitting Tyson with a right hand unless he builds the fight early, discerning the patterns the way Douglas did with much less to work with however - Ali didn’t have many deterrents.
We all see Muhammad doesn’t have an inside game - so this bout will be fought on the way in and to be reset just how Mike liked it.
What hook did Ali have? A long slap at times - off the inside of a jab like JF, MT could land his (unlike Frazier) much shorter hook all night, he hit a lot harder then Frazier too and Ali would give you that chance a thousand times.
Ali didn’t know how to throw a good uppercut with either hand… again if Tyson is slipping either way he only has to worry about the straight blows there isn’t anything actually blocking his escape routes, for when he misses a counter on Ali’s leads or the right.
if Ali does throw his right uppercut Tyson’s short hook will seat him first, if he misses a left hook what hook is there coming back? Terrible match up IMO.

 

I dont like Ali so Tyson KOs within 2.