Ray Mercer would blow Rocky Marciano's back out change my mind

I guess some of u just didn’t watch Usyk dominate the hw division. Despite being smaller in every metric to his talented peers. Past a certain weight it had diminishing returns.

Marciano’s best attributes were his stamina, power in both hands, defense, style, freakish strength and his chin. Which go well in any era.

 

I guess you didn't notice Usyk progressively added weight to his 200lbs 6'3" with78in reach frame to compete against heavyweights.

Fights at heavyweight.
1st 215lbs
2nd 217 1/4lbs
3rd 221 1/4lbs
4th 221 1/2lbs
5th 221lbs

Simple question.
Why did he add that weight?
Usyk = Great boxer, terrific footwork, fast hands excellent defence,southpaw.
What are the resemblances to Marciano?

Any man Usyk's size can win against any man,IF HE IS GOOD ENOUGH.
A slowish 5'10in man with a tiny 67inreach, and a tendency to cut CANNOT!

 

Usyk always weighed close to that he was just dehydrated for most of his fights. Secondly he was way outweighed each of those fights.

Marciano brings great boxing style to go against bigger men, power in both hands, the best stamina in the game it doesn’t have to resemble Usyk. There’s numerous boxing types n styles

 

It's like talking to a brick wall firstly when has anyone said Ali or Louis couldn't beat bigger Heavyweights ?

Secondly someone like Ali as you said is 6'3 with a much longer reach. Not to mention hes about x4 faster than Marciano of hand and foot speed. And his style is much better suited to fighting bigger Heavyweights rather than a slugger with slow feet feet who's 5'10 with 67 inch reach.

But you're trying to reason with someone who believed Marciano would beat Wladimir Klitschko it's a waste of time trying to make someone think logically when they just judge things on nostalgia.

Simple question where are all the 5'10 67 inch reach Heavyweights in the modern era ? Oh yeah that's right that don't exist. And why don't they exist ? Because best Heavyweights mostly of Marciano's era were not Heavyweights by modern standards and they're all fighting at Light Heavyweight or Cruserweight now not to mention Heavyweights are far bigger now.

All these posters keep missing the point in regards to being a world class big man and being a journeyman who's a big man there is a big difference.

Lastly the comparison to Usyk is absolutely laughable Usyk is considerably bigger than Marciano at 6'3 with a 11 inch reach advantage. He also has some of the best footwork in Heavyweight history, hes a Southpaw, hes one of the most schooled technical fighters in Heavyweight history. How is that comparable to a 5'10 67 inch reach slugger with slow feet ?

Do people even think about what they post ?

 

Yep, on the one hand there's a lot of bait threads against Marciano fans and I can see how that's annoying. But how they bite, though.

And the comparisons they make... I remember when a Rocky fan started a thread saying that the fact that Wilder was 209 lbs in the ring against Fury somehow proved that Rocky would be just as dominant today.

And now Usyk is thrown in there, not only much larger but a very, very different type of fighter. Hunter, Tunney and Conn came up as some kind of examples to refute my point on much, much smaller swarmers having a tough time today. And Buster Mathis is used as an example to how a swarmer can beat a big guy, like he has anything at all in common with Bakole and Zhang except from having an even looser waist line. And nothing in common with Joshua and Dubois.

That's a bit annoying.

 

I want the record to reflect…despite strong reservations that Marciano could compete against modern superheavyweights or even beat a powerful athletic big heavyweight like Mercer….Marciano is demonstratively greater than Mercer on a p4p scale

I confidentially feel that below 190lb, there isn’t a man past present and possibly future who would defeat a peak Rocky Marciano in the ring in a 2 out of 3 trilogy. Which makes Marciano in a p4p head to head greatness scale…the rings ultimate animal.

while his lack of physical tools handicap him against the modern big men…they don’t handicap him against 190lb and less men. Marciano’s power, strength, stamina, and durability register a 9.5 on the Richter scale, which make him an indomitable task for smaller men. Charley Goldman was really innovative at teaching an already deficient Marciano to maximize his lack of reach by fighting even lower and becoming increasingly adapt at fighting in a crouch, and Marciano even developed very unorthodox methods at rolling weaving slipping and throwing punches from that crouch, which made him difficult to predict. What Marciano did to Archie Moore in round 6 is one of the most impressive displays of greatness I have seen on film, and convinced me that no sub 190lb man past present or future could slug it out with Marciano and make it out alive.

Mercer is a big powerful athletic physical specimen who is probably too much for Marciano..but he is also lazy, embarrassingly unethical (Ferguson), inconsistent and his record is highly volatile….on a greatness p4p scale Mercer isn’t fit to carry Marciano’s jockstrap

 

I tried to reason with these guys so bad and they just need to die on this hill, I guess. I don't even get it, I tried every single argument in my bag to show that I respected Marciano and thought he was a better fighter than Mercer, but he just wouldn't beat a man fit to fight super heavyweights- But now that's being turned into, "Rocky would lose to Tex Cobb".
As I said in the Patterson Vs the 80's thread, "The better man will lose due to physical disadvantages.", I just wish that Marciano fans could see that.
Kinda lost my respect for Catchweight and Ney, lol.

 

Simmons was an excellent fighter without the luxury of a dedicated team to back him up and carefully match him. Almost every great fighter would have a spotty record without a good team and money backing them up. Ray Mercer benefited heavily from having an excellent and wealthy manager like Marc Roberts handle his career.

Ossie was listed at 5'11" as was Marciano, but both were around 5'9". Also, even with Lewis being in his 12th fight it showed that Lennox couldn't just run over a smaller heavyweight that knew his way around the ring.

 

People are not understanding styles and just keep listing heights and size for arguments for Marciano.

Ocasio was a safety first ultra defensive fighter with an awkward style. Marciano is a come forward slugger and would be trying to over power Heavyweights much bigger and stronger than him hence he wouldn't be successful.

 

They reduce our argument to exclusively be about size and weight because they can't debunk what we're really telling em.

 

I never said Rocky Marciano would beat Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali. Marciano was NOT at their level. But I do NOT believe Ray Mercer was either, nor do I think he was at Rocky Marciano's level, and I do not think Ray would beat Rocky!

Rocky was a top 25 all time head to head fighter among the Heavyweights and Ray is nowhere in sight, even on a top 50 list, in my opinion. You obviously think the opposite and that is fine. I respect your opinion on the matter. I just do not agree with it.

 

You didn't answer my question,not that I expected you to.


Q,Why did M Spinks add weight to compete against heavies?
Why did Byrd?
Why did Haye?

 

How many fights of Keene Simmons have you seen to form that opinion?

 

Fine post.
Marciano being a greater fighter is not under discussion.
I'd pick Dempsey to beat Marciano and Langford would be50/50.imo

 

The title is interesting. Just because Marciano liked vibrators it doesn’t mean he was gay lol