Anthony joshua is one of the biggest frauds in boxing

Is that down to Joshua though or Hearn ? Seems to me after the two Usyk losses Joshua was entitled to a few rebuilding fights,stay active and also rebuild his confidence as well as trainer changes also going on. Hearn being happy to wait it out and see what happened between Usyk and Fury and then see how the Heavyweight landscape played out,and with Joshua now fighting Dubois next for the IBF interim belt,seems to me that Hearn played it spot on,and this is coming from somebody who is not a fan of either Joshua or Hearn !

 

He is one of the most proven HWs of the last decade. A few guys have better recent wins but very few have a better overall resume. Cant rank Parker ahead of him because Parker got beaten pillar to post less than 2 years ago and has lost to AJ head to head, cant rank Zhang ahead of him because hes lost to Parker and (although contentious) Hrgovic and he too has lost to AJ albeit in the ammys. The idea of Kabayel or Dubois being ranked ahead of him seems laughable right now imho.

As for fighting Ngannou, remember the only reason that fight happened is most people thought Ngannou beat Fury, the literal no1 ranked HW at the time.

 

I guess a simple way of resolving the thread would be (removing Usyk in the debate, as he is the champion) to list all of the active HWs with the better overall resume than Joshua and who have won the most fights over top 10 opposition
I don't think there would be too many but could be wrong

Joshuas win resume -
The #s are what I believe the fighter was rated by Ring at the time

Whyte
Martin #9
Breazeale
Molina
Klitschko #1
Takam
Parker #3
Povetkin #3
(Was due to face Miller #8)
Ruiz #3
Pulev #10
Franklin
(Was due to rematch Whyte #6)
Helenius
Wallin #10
Ngannou

Due to face Dubois next who is rated at #6

 

Joshua has a very deep resume, but playing devil's advocate here, I don't know how relevant wins from 5 years ago + should be for rankings in 2024. Let's say we just look from the start of this decade, 2020:

name (top 10 wins) record

Usyk (Joshua '21; Joshua '22; Fury '24) 5-0-0

Zhang (Joyce '23; Joyce '23; Wilder '24) 6-2-1
Fury (Wilder '20; Wilder '21; Whyte '22) 5-1-0
Parker (Wilder '23; Zhang '23) 9-1-0
Joshua (Pulev '20; Wallin '23) 5-2-0
Kabayel (Sanchez '24) 6-0-0
Bakole (Anderson '24) 6-0-0
Dubois (Hrgovic '24) 7-2-0
Chisora (Joyce '24) 3-4-0
Ruiz Jr (Ortiz '22) 2-0-1
Joyce (Parker '22) 6-3-0
Whyte (Povetkin '21) 3-2-0
Helenius (Kownacki '20) 3-2-0

Having said that, there are lies damn lies and statistics. The numbers hide not only who the wins and losses were against, but also how people performed in their fights.

edit: 2020 not 2010

 

i wasnt banned if we were talking, jr.
likes? lmao! wtf do likes have to do with reality?
this is a public forum, if you dont want feedback, whether positive or negative, then stfu. nobody is right every time, but if you never know wtf youre talking about, it becomes noticeable and annoying. you should do more reading and less writing til you get in stride with what youre trying to talk about.
you are in no way obligated to listen to anything i say, im just offering one perspective among many. im old school, i dont believe in participation trophies for losers. youve never hit the ball and want to bat every time. the idea that someones opinion is just as valid as anyone elses, is one of the dumbest things ive ever had someone try and push on me. but again, you do you.

 

You said I am talking BS all the time here, but somehow I have much more likes than posts, which means people like what I say from time to time. See how it works ?

I never said that I understand boxing more than anyone, or I am good at analyzing boxers, I'm just saying what I think at the moment with my limited english.

100%. Absolutely. I should learn more, everytime.


I'm assuming english is your native language, but for me it's 3rd language and it's hard for me to express my thoughts every single time, with limited vocabulary and time that I have here.

 

Joshua arguably has the best top ten wins of any heavy currently in boxing. I mean, Usyk undoubtedly has him beat in the top five, but you have to finish him out with cruisers, which I am good with, but many are not, as we have debated ad nauseum.

He's really only got a small cadre of rivals...really only Usyk could be better depending how you see it.

JOSHUA
WladKlit
Parker
Povetkin
Ruiz
Whyte
Martin
Pulev
Wallin
Breazele
Helenius

USYK
Fury
Joshua I
Joshua II
Dubois
Chisora (if automatically listing heavies first as most relevant)
Briedis
Bellew
Hunter
Gassiev
Glowacki

FURY
WladKlit
Wilder II
Wilder III
Whyte
Chisora I
Wallin
Cunningham
Chisora II
Chisora III
Kingpin Johnson

PARKER
Ruiz
Zhang
Wilder
Chisora II (he didn't win the first and I am not including it)
Meehan
Takam
Leapai
Hugh Fury
Botha
Dimentenko

RUIZ
Joshua
Ortiz
Arreola
Austin
Dimentrekno
Franklin Lawrence
Kingpin Johnson
Liakovich
Joe Hanks
Tor Hammer
Devin Vargas

WHYTE
Parker
Povetkin
Chisora II
Chisora I
Rivas
Lucas Browne
Helenius
Wach
Franklin
Hammer

WILDER (if he's still fighting)
Ortiz I
Ortiz II
Stiverne I
Arreola
Duhapuas
Breazele
Washington
Helenius
Szplika
Stiverne II

I don't think anyone else would be worth looking at, even as an academic exercise.

 

I see what you are saying re 5 years, but I struggle with that a bit as ratings move around and as you say don't give a clear picture.
For example people site Parker scoring some good wins and make a sound debate for him, but Joshua has also beaten other top 10 fighters since then and I doubt there would be much interest or call for a rematch between them. Circumstances

Now this is not full proof and fighters drop in and out.
I have been critical of these ratings myself but they seem to be the one on this forum I have seen sighted the most, so using

The current Ring rating top 10 (not including champion Usyk)
Now list the number of fights a fighter has over either the champion or other top 10 rated opponents at the time of the publication

I may be wrong with the numbers as alot is off memory

Fury - 4
Joshua - 7
Parker - 2
Zhang - 3
Kabayal - 1
Dubois - 1
Bakole - 1
Hrgovic - 0
Ajagba - 0
Huni - 0

Now I know for example Hrgovic beat Zhang, but I believe that was before Zhang entered the top 10, so agree it's not full proof but gives a bit of an indication

I guess you could add additional numbers where a fighter has beaten someone who appeared in the ratings after. Even then I think Joshua would have the higher number, but could be wrong and am going off memory.

With that I struggle to see how someone could call Joshua a fraud though

 

Joshua fought Usyk twice, without hassle while it took Saudi money to get Fury in there.

 

Because Ring is promotional ratings and AJ is heavily promoted. Duh.

 

I haven't seen anyone say otherwise

 

AJ is not a fraud. What the hell are you talking about?

 

****, you ain't half wrong bud, mine was a bad post.

I was answering the first question posed in the first post; why is AJ rated 2.

IMO Joshua's overrated by his diehards and seriously underrated by just about everyone else.

 

Just to definitively clarify my thoughts on Bodybuilder.
Until Ruiz I, I was a fan of Joshua, I believed he was a great boxer capable of defeating anyone. But seeing him at the mercy of a little-known and fat boxer made me change my mind. Joshua is a great athlete, he trains seriously and is ready for every fight without making excuses like Fury who postponed several fights and Wilder who blamed his defeats on everything and everyone except himself. Having said this, having studied him carefully, I can affirm that his greatest limitation is his mind, not so much his jaw. When he fights he often doesn't know how to decipher the fight, often when he's in difficulty he doesn't have a B o C plan making him predictable and easy prey for boxers like Usyk with a high IQ Ring, Usyk who manages to change fighting style or come up with new winning moves if in difficulty as with Fury. Joshua of today if gets hit hard, he struggles to recover and is unable to react as he did against Wlad. Therefore, although he still has much power and several deadly blows in his arsenal, I can state with a certain degree of certainty that mentally he is a fragile boxer, a boxer who, if punched well, is subject to terrible mental breakdowns which make him a boxer not up to Usyk's level, or Holyfield's, of Ali's, or Lewis' and of all the greatest giants of boxing technique ever.

 

I think he’s actually underrated. He’s going to smoke Dubois