Prime Foreman - Would He Have Kod Toney?

I think we could see something similar to Floyd vs Maidana 1.

Toney, like Floyd, has a scientific style using a side leaning stance using shoulder rolls, head movements, pivots, counters, etc. Toney proved to be a legitimate hall of Fame fighter carrying his skill across multiple divisions and mixing it up with the big men of the early 2000's. He proved to have a pretty damn good chin too surviving getting rocked a few times by guys like Peter and Rahman. What's even more impressive than his chin was Tony's ability to survive and take control of the fight or even the round where he got nailed and finding a way to win with excellent, slick, old school boxing.

However, that same slickness could be Tony's downfall here. Styles make fights is a cliche, but it's extremely relevant when you're talking about a fairly unique slugger like Foreman who only plays by his own rules. You see, Toney's counters, parrying, and slick defense work partially due to the opponent "playing by the rules" and throwing "normal" Orthodox punches at him. Volume punchers and brawlers often do not care about these rules of engagement and are willing to not only punch however and wherever they want (the arms, shoulders, hip, etc), they are slso willing to eat a shot or two just to land one of their own. They will attempt to cut the ring off and suffocate the opponent with ruthless aggression.

What makes things even worse with Foreman is that in the 70's he sometimes had a calculated aggression. Ali called him "the mummy" for a reason: he'd be sticking his arms out grabbing, shoving, pulling your guard apart, pulling you into punches, and followed you wherever you went seemingly impossible to hurt or slow down. Things get even worse when you factor in that Toney is 1) significantly shorter with a shorter reach and 2) doesn't have the punching power to faze Foreman.

The question is if Toney can make it to the final bell, and with his chin and defensive skills I wouldn't be shocked if he did. He is clearly the better boxer, but would that boxing ability counteract Foreman's rough tactics and bludgeoning, looping power shots from odd angles? What about Foremans heavy jab and body shots (Toney at HW sometimes got lazy defending body shots, probably because most HWs during that era sucked at throwing them and Toney's flabby body helped cushion them)...? How does Toney's "scientific" slick style deal with Foreman simply pushing him away and then deliberately throwing a punch to his neck or chest? I guess the ref is a big factor too, not to mention the ring size.

Some may point to Foreman struggling with Jimmy Young, but Young fought a very cautious defensive fight and didn't take risks. Although they're both defensive fighters, Young's stance was very different from Toney's with a more Orthodox guard. Foreman was also mentally not the same as he was at his peak with a different trainer and style as well. Toney was much more willing to take risks or willingly brawled in some fights. Young did not do this and when Foreman had him hurt, he went into his shell. I could see a scenario where Toney gets hurt and backed into a corner and decides to be "macho" proving he could survive and turn things around.

Of all the possible HW champions Toney could fight, if I were his manager, I wouldn't want Toney in the same zip code as any version of Foreman. High risk, high reward, very ugly matchup either way. Win or lose, Toney is going to take some serious punishment and he just might get KOd if Foreman lands too many clean bombs.

 

We’re seriously entertaining this? I was joking.

 

I was convinced after the first Sam Peter fight that James Toney is one of the toughest guys to ever lace up the gloves….but he’s not lasting the distance here.

 

Toney was all about defense and he was slippery so many he goes the distance but he was not beating either version of George ... if either he has a better shot against the first version than the second who ws too smart

 

The correct answer to the OP's question in the title is YES! Mark your score on that question accordingly.

 

When we say prime I assume we mean pre-Ali Foreman?

No I seriously doubt there is anyone in history that would stop Toney. Beat Toney, yeah I think Foreman would...........stop him, nope

 

Toney from the Holyfield fight stops Foreman in Zaire. Candy to a baby.

 

Alex Stewart.

 

lol at Toney not having the power to faze 70s Foreman. He’d be drilling him.

 

Like he "drilled"

Ruiz
Browne
Booker
Oquendo
Peter
Rahman

There were an awful lot of heavies who had no trouble handling Toney's power aside from the corpse of Holyfield.

The fight probably ends before Toney could manage to land enough shots to faze Foreman in the first place. Toney gets manhandled, clubbed, framed, and pushed back constantly as Foreman simple doesn't let him get into the fight while setting up his own looping bombs. Probably resembles the Qawi fight.

 

I feel like you aren’t a college grad. It’s just a weak argument when Toney stopped Holyfield, broke Ruiz’s nose, dropped and badly hurt Jirov, rocked Rahman (rematch), and got everyone else’s respect.

70s Foreman could get stopped by a stiff breeze after about round 8.

 

I am a College grad. Did YOU graduate?

An ancient Holyfield is the only somewhat decent HW he stopped. You're glossing over the fact he went the distance with the vast majority of the cruisers and heavies he faced with a 19% KO ratio--which is probably twice as high as your IQ.

Stopping 4 out of 21 abysmal opponents doesn't give me much confidence Toney is going to faze Foreman. Especially if his plan is to drag him into deep waters past the 8 like you alluded to. Foreman ends up drowning him in the kitty pool early.

 

I don't think that it would be impossible to stop Toney.

There has been a tier of heavyweight punchers, significantly more dangerous than those that he faced.

 

Who was the guy who walked right through Toney's counters without showing respect?

*crickets*

 

The very short prime 70's Foreman with glamour corner of Saddler and Moore likely stops Toney, though a decision win is not out of the question. As long as it's not a humid, tropical climate like Zaire or San Juan, he would not empty his gas tank regardless of the bad reputation it acquired. If anything, a tad more greener George handed Peralta his only stoppage at heavyweight, in fifteenth round no less, even though solid to huge punchers couldn't manage to replicate that when he was an ancient shell of himself.

Foreman's long guard is an ugly, uncomfortable match-up for James.

EDIT: Foreman stopped Peralta in the 10th.