Was Louis vs Walcott 1 a Robbery??? Analyzing the Scorecards

Robbery has been misused by MANY people (Including me) who don't get corrected or learn from their mistakes, lol. Combine that with how we perceive negative things and these words spread like wildfire. I do think that Louis lost that fight, but a robbery it is not.

 

It was scored on a rounds basis, so each of JJW's KDs only counts as a single round. It's always been my understanding that JJW blew it by running away the last couple rounds, but also exposed that the problems Louis had with Pastor a decade earlier persisted. JJW said on camera that Ali was indeed the GOAT, and he's the only guy who was actually in the ring with both.

 

Wow man, this is super interesting and cool as ****. Thanks for taking the time to do this and sharing.

 

Excellent points in a very strong post overall. It’s easy to overlook the context of the day — sides conduct themselves in order to win according to the rules, mores and customs of their times.

Boxing for quite a long period had an understanding that to win the title, you had to take it from the champion, not merely nip him by a hair. And aggression was valued far more.

Seems like Joe did what a champion needed to do to retain by the ways of his day … the only ones that mattered when they fought. That cannot be overlooked when adjudicating a result from a different era.

 

On a side note, I have always had a fondness for the way the rematch ended.

Joe does his shuffle, dipsy-doodles around and then Joe whacks him in the mouth and takes him out. It’s quite a comic clip.

 

Round 3 there was only a small segment so its hard to judge but it looks like Walcott landed a few right hands whereas Louis maybe landed a jab or two so I'd probably give the edge to Walcott. 9 I couldn't find. 14 and 15 there's barely any footage but from what I saw Walcott landed some good counter shots while Louis was only able to land the occasional jab so I don't see how you can score that for Louis. Overall Louis just looked befuddled and slow the whole fight and was getting tagged with constant counter punches while only able to land the occasional jab I don't see how you can give him rounds when all he's doing is moving forward and getting countered

 

Regardless of exact percentages and possible biases, you do know that 60% is significantly more than 40, right?

And you do get that bad decisions happen in boxing all the time? Especially when once in a lifetime champs are involved.

• Jean Rouchard. The Evening Sun (Baltimore, MD) - 8-6-1 Walcott
• Joe Lee, Brooklyn Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) - 8-7 Louis (score provided by United Press)
• Tommy Holmes, Brooklyn Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) - Walcott
• Ralph Frost, Brooklyn Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) - Walcott
• Tom Ryan, sporting editor, Evening Courier (Camden, NJ) - 12-2-1 Walcott
• Wilfrid Smith, Chicago Daily Tribube (Chicago, IL) - 8-6-1 Louis (score provided by United Press)
• James E. Doyle, Cleveland Plain Dealer (Cleveland, OH) - 10-4-1 Walcott
• Gordon Cobbledick, sporting editor, Cleveland Plain Dealer (Cleveland, OH) - 7-6-2 Walcott (score provided by Associated Press and United Press)
• Jack Sharkey, International News Service - Walcott
• Frank Eck, Associated Press - 9-6 Walcott
• Elliott Cushing, Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY) - 8-6-1 Walcott
• Jack Cuddy, United Press - 7-6-2 Walcott
• Ray Grody, Milwaukee Sentinel (Milwaukee, WI) - 7-6-2 Walcott (score provided by United Press)
• George A. Barton, Minneapolis Morning Tribune (Minneapolis, MI) - 8-6-1 Walcott
• Alan Harvey, Canadian Press - 6-5-4 Walcott
• Gene Ward, Daily News (New York, NY) - 7-6-2 Walcott
• Joe Trimble, Daily News (New York, NY) - 7-6-2 Louis (score provided by Associated Press and United Press)
• Al Buck, New York Post (New York, NY) - 8-5-2 Louis.
• Leonard Cohen, New York Post (New York, NY) - 8-6-1 Walcott
• Jimmy Cannon, New York Post (New York, NY) - 8 rounds for Walcott
• Anthony Marenghi, Newark Star-Ledger (Newark, NJ) - 7-6-2 Louis
• Joe Gootter, Paterson Evening News (Paterson, NJ) - 9-6 Louis
• Al Abrams, sporting editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Pittsburgh, PA) - 8-6-1 Walcott
• W. J. McGoogan, St. Louis Post-Dispatch (St. Louis, MO) - 7-7-1
• John M. Flynn, sporting editor, The Berkshire Evening Eagle (Pittsfield, MA) - Walcott
• Clif Keane, The Boston Daily Globe (Boston, MA) - 8-5-2 Louis
• Bill Cunningham, The Boston Herald (Boston, MA) - 7-6-2 Walcott (score provided by United Press)
• Sec Taylor, sporting editor, The Des Moines Register (Des Moines, IA) - 8-6-1 Walcott
• Burton Hawkins, The Evening Star (Washington, DC) - 7-6-2 Walcott
• Bill Lee, sporting editor, The Hartford Courant (Hartford, CT) - 7-4-4 Walcott
• Charlie Tiang, sporting editor, The Kingston Daily Freeman (Kingston, NY) - 9-4-2 Walcott
• Wendell Smith, sporting editor, The Pittsburgh Courier (Pittsburgh, PA) - 7-6-2 Louis
• James P. Dawson, The New York Times (New York, NY) - 8-7 Louis
• Joseph C. Nichols, New York Times - 8-7 Louis (score provided by Associated Press and United Press)
• John Webster, The Philadelphia Inquirer and Public Ledger (Philadelphia, PA) - 11-3-1 Walcott
• Lawton Carver, sporting editor, International News Service - 7-5-3 Louis
• Harold W. Heinz, The Springfield Union (Springfield, MA) - 8-5-2 Walcott
• John McNulty, PM Daily (New York, NY) - 7-6-2 Walcott
• Tom Meany, sporting editor, PM Daily (New York, NY) - 9-6 Louis (score provided by Associated Press)
• Nat Fleischer, The Ring (New York, NY) - 8-6-1 Louis

• Wilbur Wood, sporting editor, New York Sun - 11-4 Walcott
• Grantland Rice, New York Sun - 11-4 Walcott
• Lester Bromberg, New York World Telegram - 10-5 Walcott
• Joe Williams, New York World Telegram - Walcott
• Max Case, New York Journal-American - Walcott
• Frank Graham, New York Journal-American - Walcott
• Lewis Burton, New York Journal-American - Walcott
• Bill Corum, New York Journal-American - 8-7 Louis
• Dan Parker, New York Daily Mirror - 9-6 Louis (according to AP) or 8-7 Louis (according to UP)
• Jim Jennings, New York Daily Mirror - 7-6-2 Louis
• Jesse Abramson, New York Herald Tribune - 8-7 Louis
• Red Smith, New York Herald Tribune - 8-7 Louis
• Ted Meier, Associated Press - 11-3-1 Walcott
• Hugh S. Fullerton, Associated Press - Walcott. "He scored the harder punches."
• Murray Rose, Associated Press - 9-5-1 Walcott
• Ted Smits, Associated Press - Walcott
• Gayle Talbot, Associated Press - 10-4-1 Walcott
• Leo H. Peterson, sporting editor, United Press - 7-5-3 Walcott
• Oscar Fraley, United Press - 7-6-2 Walcott
• Bob Considine, International News Service - 8-7 Walcott
• Davis J. Walsh, International News Service - 8-3-4 Walcott
• Harry Grayson, Newspaper Enterprise Association - 8-4-3 Walcott
• John Lardner, North American Newspaper Alliance - Louis
• John Carmichael, sporting editor, Chicago Daily News - 11-4 Walcott (according to AP) or 8-4-3 Walcott (according to UP)
• Gene Kessler, Chicago Times - 7-6-2 Walcott
• Clair Kelley, Chicago Herald-American - 9-3-3 Walcott
• Jack Conway, Boston American - Louis
• Gerry Hern, Boston Post - 7-7-1 (according to AP and Al Buck of NY Post) or 7-6-2 Walcott (according to UP)
• Ed Delaney, Philadelphia Daily News - Walcott
• Matt Ring, Philadelphia Evening Bulletin - 8-7 Walcott
• Whitey Lewis, Cleveland News - 8-7 Walcott
• Franklin Lewis, Cleveland Press - Walcott
• Shirley Povich, Washington Post - Walcott
• Bob Addie, Washinton Times-Herald - 9-3-3 Walcott
• Hank O'Donnell, Waterbury Republican - 12-2-1 Walcott
• George Edmond, St. Paul Pioneer Press - 8-5-2 Louis
• Bill Demuth, Wheeling Intelligencer - 8-5-2 Walcott
• Robert Bre, La Presse (Paris, France) - 7-5-3 Louis
• Jean Kroutchtain, AFP (French News Agency) - 7-5-3 Walcott
• Bob Murphy, Detroit Evening Times, 8-5-2 Walcott

 

This only shows that the socalled Newspaper Decisions are worthless.

 

Under the current system Walcott would have won because knockdowns weren't scored.

Its in that genre of fights where the judges and refs disagreed.

So its checking all the boxes. But when I think robbery I'm thinking the loser had no case and this wasn't that either.

 

That term is meant to refer to fights which did not have either judges or a scoring ref where you had to discern the winner and loser via the newspaper score. This was not a newspaper decision, the decision was made by judges.

 

Bravo to McGrain and Pedro for two exceptional posts. I heard starting at a young age that Walcott won that fight and was robbed. No doubt the two knockdowns held a lot of sway with fans and made the verdict seem a miscarriage.

 

This is a brilliant summary,I've always argued.
1.No fight this close can be a robbery.
2.Nobody alive can say who won because,as you stated, only 15 minutes of the fight are available to be viewed.
Louis ,in his autobiography said he had no doubt he won the fight,because Walcott did not ,"take the title from him".
He said he tried to leave the ring because of the bad fight he put up,and he said sorry to Walcott,but that he said that to all his victims.
Louis also reiterated his opinion that he won the fight on national TV sitting next to Walcott, watching the fight,I think it was called ,"How It Was" and can be found on You Tube.

 

Walcott got the majority of the votes from the press,but some heavyweight hitters amongst them did vote for Louis.
James P Dawson
Nat Fleischer
John Lardner
Jesse Abramson
Red Smith
Al Buck
Bill Corum
Dan Parker
The fact that the referee Ruby Goldstein called it 8 -7 for Walcott indicates a very close fight,open to personal interpretation ie do you prefer the clever, boxing mainly on the retreat of the challenger ,or the aggressive come forward making the fight tactics of the Champion.
Not having a crystal ball,and even I, being too young to have seen the complete fight,I have no opinion on who deserved the verdict.

 

I always reckoned it was the lack of 10-8 rounds that doomed Walcott.