Educate me: Cleveland “BigCat” Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SonnyListon>, Aug 15, 2024.


  1. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Holyfield butted Rahman, he didn't beat any of him.
    Holyfield was washed and couldn't take punches anymore.

    In weak era...had he fought in early 90s he would get killed.

    Against who?
    Again it wasn't the Rahman who beat Lewis and had so many NC.
     
  2. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes he did, he was well ahead on points when the fight was stopped.

    He took literally every punch that he was hit with over the remainder of his boxing career, even when he was outweighed by 100 lbs.

    Literally every one.

    You mean the era were Moorer & Bentt were able to win titles?

    Rahman was as good as he ever was for the 1st Toney fight that went the distance.

    Then there's Sam Peter x2.
     
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  3. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He wasn't stopped.

    Rahman was critical of Holyfield after the fight, stating "I don't feel it was a fair or official fight. I don't feel Evander beat me tonight" and later joking at the post-fight press conference "I'm sitting here with an extra head" and that he would "wear a helmet next time."[5]

    After his knockout win over Tyson, Lewis vacated the IBF title at the urging of promoter Don King, which allowed King to put together a fight between Holyfield and Chris Byrd for the vacant belt with hopes of pitting the winner against the winner of the John Ruiz–Roy Jones Jr. WBA championship bout.[6]

    Rahman would go on to face David Tua in a rematch which was controversially scored a draw.

    Holyfield that faced Toney was past prime and had problems with lesser and c level fighters.
    1992 and 2002 is not the same Holyfield.

    Moorer would beat Toney and so would Tua.
    Rahman in 2006 was not the late 90s Rahman too.
     
  4. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Turned pro in 1951...he was a top rated heavyweight for a while...but every time it looked like he was going to get a title shot...he'd lose a fight and he got derailed.. Lost to Liston...won a few more fights...lost to Liston again...had a draw with Eddie Machen in 1962...then he lost a decision to Ernie Terrell in 1963...got stopped by the police in November 1964 in Houston for speeding. He had an altercation with the police officer...and in the struggle...the cops gun went off and Williams got shot in the stomach. He had 4 operations...his kidney had to be removed...and he had nerve damage in his left leg. Police officer Dale Witten and Williams met up before Williams' fight with Ali in November 1966...shook hands and said that they had no hard feelings to each other. Williams was KO'd by Ali in the 3rd round. He drove a forklift later in his life...and died after being hit by a car on September 3, 1999...and died on September 10, 1999 at the age of 66.
     
  5. Markus.C.65

    Markus.C.65 Member Full Member

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    Totally agree
    Fighters fought more often back then , nobody was obsessed by the notion of protecting reputations and unless they were the very best , they won and they lost.
    He was clearly a good fighter but was generally beaten when taking on elite level fighters.
    When you're good enough to fight at elite level but not good enough to win at it , you end up being remembered most for being involved in fights you lost.
     
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  6. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So did many heavyweights
     
  7. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I didn't say he was stopped, I said the fight was stopped.

    None of whom were able top stop Holy like Toney did.

    You flat out LIED & said Holy "couldn't take punches anymore," when in fact he took literally every punch he was hit w/ for nearly a decade afterward.

    Holy lost to Moorer too & Ruiz couldn't last 20 secs w/ Tua - were neither of them "real HWs" either?

    Rahman didn't even KO Lewis until the early 2000s, & his performance vs. Kali Meehan (who was coming off a controversial loss to Brewster) was considered one of the best of his career after the Lewis win.
     
  8. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah, that's a ridiculous standard for being "not a real HW."
     
  9. etherealboxing

    etherealboxing New Member Full Member

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    I don't believe he was all that great. He lacked in qualities like strength and speed in comparison to superior fighters, such as Rocky Marciano.
     
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  10. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah late 90s and 2000s Holyfield which wasn't the same man who beat Bowe.

    Yeah because they fought the best version of Holyfield while washed Holyfield went life and death with Tunney.
     
  11. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    This comment is the best and the most realistic without overhyping someone but judging him based on what he did.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    How did he lack strength and speed?
    In which fights can this be seen?
     
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  13. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No they didn't, Holy continued to fight for nearly a decade after the Toney fight & was never dropped again during that time, even when outweighed by as much as 100 lb. Unless you think Holy magically got younger after the Toney fight, your claim that he "couldn't take punches anymore" was an outright lie.

    :facepalm:
     
  14. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So?
    Archie Moore continued to fight decades after his prime but he wasn't in his prime.
    Holyfield was almost killed by MMA fighter for christ sake and last of his few fights were pathetic, he couldn't even talk normaly.

    Toney won't beat any of 1990-1996 Holyfield, maybe he would get even stopped.
     
  15. BoxingFan2002

    BoxingFan2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    In almost all fights when he faced someone at least good as him.
    Whom he beat that was as good as him or better?
    None.