What if Dave Barry hadn't refd the long count fight? This ref doesn't attempt to push Dempsey away and counts over Tunney with no long count controversy. Do you think Tunney could make it up? If he doesn't and Jack win s, what do you think would have happened next in boxing history?
The issue was Dempsey stood over Tunney when he knocked him down because he forgot they changed the rules where you have to go to a neutral corner. Hence Tunney got a few more seconds to recover because the referee had to instruct Dempsey to go to the corner. That wasn't the referee's fault he was doing his job it was Dempsey's fault, and a different referee wouldn't of made a difference to the outcome. Tunney was dazed but coherent and took the full count wisely similar to Douglas against Tyson.
Any referee who properly enforced the rules would have done the same thing. Dempsey’s problem is he flashed back to 1919 and things had changed.
The referee did show bias towards Tunney in my opinion. Do we get a different outcome with a different referee? Probably not. Tunney is still going to take full advantage of the count, and he is still going to beat the count. Then he is probably going to spoil his way through the round, and take control of the fight again.
For this to work we need to move the ruleset back to 1919. The ref did the right thing under the RULE SET of that title fight.
Tunney was staring in an alerted way at the ref since the count of 3, which was like 8 seconds in reality. I think Gene could’ve gotten up at that point.
There’s no contention that the ref didn’t do the right thing. The hypothetical is simply framing for a “what if”. If Dempsey was allowed to stay in proximity, ready to pounce as soon as Gene lifted off the canvas, good chance that Tunney would’ve got splattered. With that outcome and no doubt accompanied by an outcry over the ref’s failure to enforce the rules, a third bout likely ensues and a once bitten twice as shy Gene Toney ( )sweeps the rubber. As to so called long counts, the problem is that no one will ever know if things might’ve been different if the downed fighter was required to get up in time before a reasonably administered count. It’s also not just a case of getting to your feet but also being viable to fight when you do arise. Ultimately, the downed fighter shouldn’t be victimised for what amounts to an error on the ref’s part. Whether they did so consciously or not, fighters are meant to avail themselves of the best part of the count - so the possibility of their simply having done so is always there. I thought the ref Barry treated then evenly. Dempsey suffered a flash KD but jumped up immediately, ready to continue fighting - there was no time for the ref to react and get Tunney to a corner. I could be wrong but while there was a neutral corner rule I don’t think there was there was a mandatory 8 count also - so, as soon as you got back up it was game on again. I also believe the neutral corner rule was agreed upon for Dempsey vs Firpo but upon the first KD, that agreement went out the window and it was Rafferty’s Rules.
Octavio aka: The Human Atomic Clock. Who needs to pick up counts from timekeepers with their silly stopwatches? Not Tik Tok Meyran. I wish Mr Meyran timed me exclusively in my High School 100 metre sprints - I would’ve been breaking records left, right and centre.
I don’t know that there would have been too many takers - unless they wanted to become part of the knockdown count themselves.
As usual Pug, you've nailed it. It's a "What if Dempsey was allowed to stay near by whilst the ref counted over, but not sure the others got it, mate.
Excellent post. One small nitpick, I could've swore the referee started counting immediately as Dempsey went down? Could very well be wrong however.
But Barry began to count as soon as Dempsey went down and Tunney hadn't moved an inch!If that wasn't Barry's fault whose was it?