Tunney vs Marciano

Interesting. I knew about the Fred Fulton one but I’ll have to look for some others.

I don’t know if measuring the ten count KO is necessarily the best way to quantify punching power, as it has become increasingly common for referees to stop bouts whilst a fighter is unconscious on the ground prior to the conclusion of a standard 10 count. Regardless of who truly hit harder, I do think Marciano holds enough power to knock Tunney down and out, he’d likely get touched up on his way to finding the shot, but I do believe he’d find it.

 

This is really stupid logic. Two different eras, in Marciano's refs would actually stop bouts after multiple knockdowns. In Dempsey's you could stand over your opponent, beat then as soon as they got up and knock them down 7 times in a round without a stoppage. Yeah Dempsey is gonna have more KOs, in that era it was far harder to get a TKO and you could only stop a fight by getting a KO. Marciano has one punch knockout power. His KO of Walcott even made Dempsey give credence

 

Dempsey was always gracious. His motto was “if you can’t say something nice don’t say anything at all”.

Grantland Rice wrote this after watch Dempsey fight Willard live:

“Watching from ringside it was unbelievable. It appeared Dempseys next blow would take Willard’s head clean off. Dempsey must be the hardest hitter ever to live”.

Fleischer after watching that same fight:

“Dempseys blows sounded like a wooden hammer pounding an anvil”.

 

I think to call Dempsey the hardest hitter to ever live is hyperbole of the highest order. Back on topic, I really am not convinced from the film I’ve seen that Tunney would be able to consistently stave off a prime Marciano for a full 15 rounds.

 

He left his chin exposed because that was integral to the style he was using; Tunney modelled himself after the Gibbons brothers who purposefully kept themselves exposed as means of opening their opponent up for counters. Plenty of people still do this with their chin stuck out nowadays as well as greats proceeding Tunney, if your head movement and overall defense is competent as Tunney's is then you can get away with that.

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Not at all. There is a laundry list a mile long of great fighters, sparring partners etc that attest to Dempseys punching power. He was also extremely quick which added greatly
to the effect of his blows.

Dempsey held the record for 70 years of the most first round KOs by a heavyweight champion at 25. Marciano had 11 first round KOs.

 

Regardless, I believe that Marciano had more than enough power to wipe out Tunney, and from what I’ve seen of his defence, as well as his tendency to sit at midrange with his hands down (which a shot Dempsey made him pay for, pinning him to the ropes and dropping him), I don’t think it’s unrealistic to say that Rocky wins here.

 

It's a strange critique from @Gazelle Punch. Walcott's whole style depended on him keeping his chin stuck out, drawing in punches that he would counter.

 

Also as far as most first round KO’s is concerned, I don’t think that’s necessarily an indicator of overwhelming power as much as it is lack of competition. I also don’t believe it’s entirely fair to rely purely on stats to quantify power, I could name a number of guys who, just on visual impact, clearly hit much harder with much less effort than Dempsey. I also don’t highly value the statements of sparring partners and other great opponents who didn’t live to see many of the all time great punchers that followed Dempsey.

 

Tunney fought tall, with a low guard something you can employ if you possess an expert sense of range. Tunney had that, not to mention great legs and Great stamina. If you watch Tunney, you can see how effortlessly he moves his head to avoid most punches coming his way. He went 65-1 in his career, fighting mostly men that were much faster than Marciano. He would make Marciano look awfully slow. I’m not saying Marciano couldn’t grind him down with brute strength, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

 

I’m not referring to keeping hands low as being bad in itself. It’s the mechanics of the when they’re actually punching.

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You can see the difference w Walcott in that even if he has his hands down when he throws a punch u can’t counter him when in range because his chin is protected. When u teach someone to throw punches u always teach them to throw the punch the proper way so their chin is never exposed. When Tunney throws a punch he’s wide open.

 

In all truth, Marciano is a tough ticket for the best sub 200 fighters in history. Some would beat him. He would beat some we would never expect him to. He was the real deal.

 

The difference is that Tunney used mostly straight punches from long range and then moved to close range to tie up his opponent.
Walcott liked to stay in the pocket and counter with hooks, which was a more dangerous zone than Tunney operated in, but they both did use their heads as bait, Walcott even more so than Tunney, and twice he got punished for that by Louis and Marciano, although he had lost his legs by the time he fought the latter. There was no evolution from Tunney to Walcott, the dude turned pro 2 years after Tunney retired.
Marciano wouldn't be able to just throw and find Tunney just because he kept his chin out in the open, Gene had the legs and head movement to make Rocky miss and counter him just like he did Dempsey.
An example for Tunney using both head movement and glove blocking to deal with haymakers at 18:10 , watch with 0.25 speed to see how he blocks the two lunging blows by Dempsey

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Gibbons was 35, having his last fight,but even so its obvious he can't do anything withTunney.

 

Lots of eviscerating Marciano’s competition going on here…but I’ll tell you what my eyes see.

Tunney fought in a primitive era, where boxers were tougher than perhaps ever but had not developed technically yet to the skill level of future eras

Tunney fought with his hands low, he never brought up hands back up to proper defensive position, he crossed his feet, he leaned back to avoid punches…it worked in the 20s against bandy legged, maladroit crude farm boys who threw punches like a couple of flapper girls on the ole gin & juice. Dempsey was retired, gassed easily, and was nowhere near the 110 punch per round peak Marciano.

people talk about Tunney being good at tying up in the clinch..but fail to mention Marciano may have been one of the best in history at getting himself out of the clinch and was possibly the strongest p4p fighter..Tunney would be in for the surprise of his life on the inside.


The closest style on film that resembled Tunney is Harry Kid Matthews who got dispatched by two brutal left hooks. Keep your hands up Harry!

Charles Walcott Moore even Louis..even the versions Marciano fought look so much more technically adept on film than Tunney’s competition.

Also something to be said…Marciano never hid behind the color line. Marciano fought black men consistently, including the best of his era. Tunney not only never fought black men, he never even sparred with them!